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Donald Trump says UK and Europe are not safe places following Brussels attacks Watch

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    (Original post by Slutty Salafi)
    The argument was the Europe's main problem is suicide bombers, while America's is mass shooters.


    In all honesty, I am aware that Europe is statistically more safe, but I hate the idea of not fighting back and dying like a cowardly pig more than the idea of dying itself. America's culture of fighting back, the Alamo, castle doctrine is better than calling the police or your *****y NHS ambulance as you breath in the stench of rotting flesh or turn on the TV and hear some political bleating on about keeping calm and carrying on.
    You say that like England doesn't have self defence laws. It does. You can shoot someone dead completely legally if it comes to it.
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    (Original post by Christ Redeems)
    but the attacks in america are not usually by suicide bombers, but by deranged shooters


    so your point is moot.
    Because you've taken it out of context. The person who I first replied to was talking about using guns to defend yourself in Europe.
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    (Original post by Dodgypirate)
    Why are you bringing up mass shootings when this is to do with terrorism??

    Europe isn't safe from TERRORISM, that's Trumps point. Of course he knows mass shootings are a big issue in the US, but he's commenting on Europe.

    **** me.
    All he's saying is the the Uk and Europe are not safe places. If that's the case America by comparison is an active battlefield. It's not like he even cares about safety given he complained about people "not wanting to hurt each other" in one of his speeches.
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    (Original post by Ethereal World)
    Trump has a big audience and instead of focusing on American domestic policy which is arguably the most important facet in any national election, he is drawing attention to atrocities comitted by ISIS in order to gain political traction.

    He's basically going - look over there and what is happening when they let 'them' in and when they don't come down hard on immigration. That could be reality here.... Unless you elect me and I will ban all Muslims and build a wall between America and Mexico so we can all get obese and selfish and forget about the rest of the world except when we are dropping bombs on them.

    It's irresponsible given that division within our societies is both what ISIS wants and the biggest threat to western civilisation in the long term.
    But is he wrong in saying that Europe isn't safe? Is he wrong in saying that the recent immigration surge has caused an escalation of terrorist attacks?

    We've already seen how ****ing dreadful Merkel's "roll-the-red-carpet" policy is, and now how she's gone back on her word.

    Trump is expressing how they can't do the same in the US - which isn't wrong either.

    He's isn't banning all Muslims, he's banning entry to dangerous Muslim immigrants (i.e he won't kick them out, he'll keep them out), and the wall is too help control immigration, which is already a serious problem in the US.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    ISIS attacked the Bataclan, do you honestly think that you can take a loaded gun into a rock concert environment, with massive crowds, people jumping around and stuff.

    They also attacked Brussels airport. Not sure what country you live in but over here you'll get arrested for walking into an airport with a gun.

    Furthermore a small handgun for self defence is probably useless against trained militants with automatic rifles, and especially useless against suicide bombers.


    People who live in countries that allow their citizens to bear arms wherever the hell the want to.

    Whether they have a gun in their rooms, in their cars, in their office desk is none of your business. As far as the places where they are carrying their firearms into has no laws against holding ammunition in that particular place then yes they can bear arms.


    Any one with a brain would tell you that if the people in the concert had guns, the deaths would have been much much lower. The Islamic terrorists specifically aimed for a zone where they knew the people there couldn't defend themselves
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    (Original post by Slutty Salafi)
    I would sign up to a shooting range, America's shooters are generally not trained ex-forces guys.
    Oh. A shooting range. That's great. I didn't realise bad guys always had bullseyes, stayed perfectly still and didn't shoot back.



    Unless you signed up to full time training - 8hrs a day, every day, studied the law and tactics for various situations - you'd only cause the deaths of innocent people.

    I've been in the forces, I've had weapons training. I know I wouldn't have the skills. You're worse. You're dangerous. Because you're woefully and childishly ignorant.
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    (Original post by Gwilym101)
    All he's saying is the the Uk and Europe are not safe places. If that's the case America by comparison is an active battlefield. It's not like he even cares about safety given he complained about people "not wanting to hurt each other" in one of his speeches.
    He knows how **** the US currently is and he has expressed his plans to turn it around, but this article has nothing to do with it... it has everything to do with his opinion on Europe. Jesus Christ.

    I'm sure he has already spoken about mass shootings.
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    (Original post by Mactotaur)
    You say that like England doesn't have self defence laws. It does. You can shoot someone dead completely legally if it comes to it.
    You can't use lethal force if you're no longer in danger or to recover property, I disagree with this morally.
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    (Original post by Ethereal World)
    Trump has a big audience and instead of focusing on American domestic policy which is arguably the most important facet in any national election, he is drawing attention to atrocities comitted by ISIS in order to gain political traction.

    He's basically going - look over there and what is happening when they let 'them' in and when they don't come down hard on immigration. That could be reality here.... Unless you elect me and I will ban all Muslims and build a wall between America and Mexico so we can all get obese and selfish and forget about the rest of the world except when we are dropping bombs on them.

    It's irresponsible given that division within our societies is both what ISIS wants and the biggest threat to western civilisation in the long term.
    I think that's a little unfair tbh. Trump by and large focusses on domestic issues; his foreign policy is pretty tame given how extremist we're meant to think he is. He's drawing attention to the atrocities ISIS are committing because he's in favour of clamping down the borders in various ways, and he's saying these attacks are a result of insufficient control of who enters your country. Which is indeed a domestic policy, and also one which whether you agree with or not, isn't really an example of political spin. It's true that the terrorist cells that committed that attacks in Paris and Brussels did take advantage of ease of access to Europe from the middle east. By all means bash Trump - there're plenty of things to bash him about after all - but what he said here seemed pretty reasonable.

    Also, I really don't understand the opposition to building a wall with Mexico. There is a huge amount of illegal immigration and human trafficking across the US-Mexico border, not to mention that most of the drugs in the US come through Mexico. I don't really see why stopping that is a bad thing?
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    (Original post by Christ Redeems)
    but the attacks in america are not usually by suicide bombers, but by deranged shooters


    so your point is moot.
    Exactly, I accept that overall America is less safe, but you can't bring up mass-shootings in America and then say but guns don't work against bombers when you were previously arguing that America's problem is shootings not terrorism FFS


    One other thing which is better about America is how whilst overall it's less safe, the right parts are probably more safe, it's not all Rednecks in Texas and Gangbangers in Detroit.
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    (Original post by YERE)
    People who live in countries that allow their citizens to bear arms wherever the hell the want to.

    Whether they have a gun in their rooms, in their cars, in their office desk is none of your business. As far as the places where they are carrying their firearms into has no laws against holding ammunition in that particular place then yes they can bear arms.


    Any one with a brain would tell you that if the people in the concert had guns, the deaths would have been much much lower. The Islamic terrorists specifically aimed for a zone where they knew the people there couldn't defend themselves
    No one is going to take a frigging loaded gun into a concert hall where people get smashed and dance around.

    And one person with a handgun versus 3 people with suicide vests and AK-47s is not going to end well.

    And for the record, one of the gunmen was killed by a police officer long before the siege ended. So it happened anyway and regardless 89 people died.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    Oh. A shooting range. That's great. I didn't realise bad guys always had bullseyes, stayed perfectly still and didn't shoot back.



    Unless you signed up to full time training - 8hrs a day, every day, studied the law and tactics for various situations - you'd only cause the deaths of innocent people.

    I've been in the forces, I've had weapons training. I know I wouldn't have the skills. You're worse. You're dangerous. Because you're woefully and childishly ignorant.
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ass-shootings/

    Quite a lot of civilians have successfully defended themselves in America, jesus ****ing christ.
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    (Original post by Dodgypirate)
    But is he wrong in saying that Europe isn't safe? Is he wrong in saying that the recent immigration surge has caused an escalation of terrorist attacks?
    What is your definition of safe ? Compared to most places on earth yes Europe is pretty damn safe. The point of terrorism and ISIS recent attacks is to create fear primarily so if you let that happen then they win. He is wrong in saying that the recent immigration surge has caused an escalation of terrorist attacks yes.

    It's about proportionality. It's irrational to fear something which is causing less loss of life than Americas gun policy but be cool with that. And in Europe Islamic terrorism has indeed not been as destructive in terms of human mortality as the gun laws in America. If you say Europe isn't safe based on Paris and Brussels, then nowhere is safe

    We've already seen how ****ing dreadful Merkel's "roll-the-red-carpet" policy is, and now how she's gone back on her words.
    Merkel's policy was dreadful and should never have been handled like that. Because it's created the conditions for the home grown ISIS supporters to demonstrate that Muslims can't live in harmony with non-Muslims. ISIS hijacked Germany's kindness to the people who are escaping who need refuge. It creates division and that is what they want.

    Trump is expressing how they can't do the same in the US - which isn't wrong either.

    He's isn't banning all Muslims, he's banning entry to dangerous Muslim immigrants (i.e he won't kick them out, he'll keep them out), and the wall is too help control immigration, which is already a serious problem in the US.
    Tbh the fact you are a 'wall sympathiser' means this discussion is only gonna go one way.

    Trump is using people like you to garner political support and unfortunately, it's working. Gotta hand it to him.

    We are basically all pawns rn unless we use our own brains. We are pawns for ISIS for fearing and distrusting Muslims. And we are pawns for the Trump-esq ideologies which are being used to get into power. Same will happen with Brexit if we arent careful.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    No one is going to take a frigging loaded gun into a concert hall where people get smashed and dance around.

    And one person with a handgun versus 3 people with suicide vests and AK-47s is not going to end well.

    And for the record, one of the gunmen was killed by a police officer long before the siege ended. So it happened anyway and regardless 89 people died.
    Obviously taking a gun to a concert is retarded, but you're acting like there are only two options, no guns at all or literally sleeping with your gun in your bed.

    Also it would make sense if bouncers and private security in America are armed and that could have prevented the shooting.
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    (Original post by Frank Underwood)
    No one is going to take a frigging loaded gun into a concert hall where people get smashed and dance around.

    And one person with a handgun versus 3 people with suicide vests and AK-47s is not going to end well.

    And for the record, one of the gunmen was killed by a police officer long before the siege ended. So it happened anyway and regardless 89 people died.


    No one took it because France have very strict gun laws smartass.


    Countries that allow their Users to bear arms generally have very low terror rates and crime. Places with loose gun laws are normally the ones with the highest crime rates for obvious reasons.

    Just look at Switzerland and Finland. 2 countries that didn't roll the red carpet for islamic immigration and have very strong laws allowing people to bear arms not only have on of the lowest homicide rates in Europe (#1 and #2 respectively) but they also have the lowest rates of terrorism in Europe.


    See the pattern
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    (Original post by Slutty Salafi)
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ass-shootings/

    Quite a lot of civilians have successfully defended themselves in America, jesus ****ing christ.
    From your own source:
    "Naturally, such examples will be rare. ... Moreover, at least some examples are ambiguous, because it might be unclear — as you’ll see below — whether the shooter had been planning to kill more people when he was stopped."

    And in a case like the one we're discussing, the Bataclan, all an armed civilian would have achieved is getting themselves and more people killed.


    Real life is not Hollywood. The sooner you grow up and realise that, the better for all of us.
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    (Original post by Drewski)
    From your own source:
    "Naturally, such examples will be rare. ... Moreover, at least some examples are ambiguous, because it might be unclear — as you’ll see below — whether the shooter had been planning to kill more people when he was stopped."

    And in a case like the one we're discussing, the Bataclan, all an armed civilian would have achieved is getting themselves and more people killed.


    Real life is not Hollywood. The sooner you grow up and realise that, the better for all of us.
    Irrelevant, civilians can and have successfully defended themselves and this is not counting all of the home invasions and muggings which have been prevented
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    (Original post by Ethereal World)
    Trump is using people like you to garner political support and unfortunately, it's working. Gotta hand it to him.
    Stuff like is becoming quite old and overused, ''right-wingers are stupid useful idiots who are controlled by demagogues who can't think for themselves'', nobody believes it anymore.
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    I think that's a little unfair tbh. Trump by and large focusses on domestic issues; his foreign policy is pretty tame given how extremist we're meant to think he is. He's drawing attention to the atrocities ISIS are committing because he's in favour of clamping down the borders in various ways, and he's saying these attacks are a result of insufficient control of who enters your country. Which is indeed a domestic policy, and also one which whether you agree with or not, isn't really an example of political spin. It's true that the terrorist cells that committed that attacks in Paris and Brussels did take advantage of ease of access to Europe from the middle east. By all means bash Trump - there're plenty of things to bash him about after all - but what he said here seemed pretty reasonable.

    Also, I really don't understand the opposition to building a wall with Mexico. There is a huge amount of illegal immigration and human trafficking across the US-Mexico border, not to mention that most of the drugs in the US come through Mexico. I don't really see why stopping that is a bad thing?
    No Trump is complicit in creating irrational and disproportionate fear which is more dangerous to us in the long term than what ISIS currently have the power to do.

    All that border control stuff you just went on about is just demonstrating how self centred the west has become. You can't pick and choose and have your cake and eat it in this world. There will be lash back. And currently, ISIS is just the lash back against American led imperialism using Islam as their justification.
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    (Original post by Slutty Salafi)
    Irrelevant, civilians can and have successfully defended themselves and this is not counting all of the home invasions and muggings which have been prevented
    Highly relevant. You can't pick and choose the argument to suit your narrow agenda.

    There's also the fact that law enforcement utterly despise the idea of civilians being armed - chances are when they react to a situation they end up shooting the 'good guy' by mistake because they're indistinguishable from the bad ones and don't know what they're doing.
 
 
 
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