Donald Trump says UK and Europe are not safe places following Brussels attacks Watch

wdkmwd
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#161
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#161
(Original post by AliRizzo)
Erm, no. It isn't.


Europe as a whole Continent, compared to The USA, a single country with an even smaller percentage of muslims that Countries like England, France and Sweden?


Erm yes they do.
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AliRizzo
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#162
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#162
(Original post by wdkmwd)
Europe as a whole Continent, compared to The USA, a single country with an even smaller percentage of muslims that Countries like England, France and Sweden?


Erm yes they do.
Pretty sure he was talking about the UK. Never seen anyone refer to Europe as 'we'.

On another note, why are you classifying terrorist attacks as only to do with Muslims you massive weapon?
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carrotstar
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Seriously? Nowhere is safe. How on Earth do you define safe? I could be hit by a meteor no matter where I'm standing. I could be hit by a car when crossing the road. I could die suddenly of a heart failure or discover I've got cancer in a matter of minutes.

Also, the USA isn't safe according to North Korea's threats..

Nowhere is safe. And on the same scale, nowhere is dangerous.
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wdkmwd
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(Original post by AliRizzo)
Pretty sure he was talking about the UK. Never seen anyone refer to Europe as 'we'.

On another note, why are you classifying terrorist attacks as only to do with Muslims you massive weapon?


The context of this thread was Terrorism caused my Islamic nutjobs.

When a prominent political figure goes around trying to ban any other religious group of people, based on terrorism caused by believers of said religion then we can talk about terrorism from other religions.


But right now, the topic is Islamic terrorism in the west.
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Oilfreak1
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(Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
Okay, 'truer' is a poor choice of words. Perhaps a better way to phrase it would be ISIS follow the actions of Muhammad and his descended caliphs more accurately than most all other muslims. Which certainly isn't a good thing; those who follow any religion to the letter are by and large nutjobs. The only real point I was making is that the claim that ISIS aren't 'real Muslims' is utter nonsense aimed at passing the buck, rather than accepting that there are issues in Islam, just as Christianity has been forced to accept the inherent issues in the Bible.
I agree, ISIS are certainly Muslims and real ones at that, only an idiot would state otherwise. However despite establishing a caliph they have ignored just as much of the Qu'ran and the life of the prophet just as moderates have chosen to ignore the more sour aspects of the religion.

Muslims have had problems with people like Daesh (Khajirites) pretty much since the religions inception, and they always try to come off as the more legitimate representatives of islam, making other Muslims look deficient in faith they're nothing new, they don't represent islam any better than a moderate but yes they are legitimate muslims.
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wdkmwd
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(Original post by carrotstar)
Seriously? Nowhere is safe. How on Earth do you define safe? I could be hit by a meteor no matter where I'm standing. I could be hit by a car when crossing the road. I could die suddenly of a heart failure or discover I've got cancer in a matter of minutes.

Also, the USA isn't safe according to North Korea's threats..

Nowhere is safe. And on the same scale, nowhere is dangerous.


I like to see you go to the Northern part of Nigeria, or Raqqa,Syria and confirm that claim.
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Luke Kostanjsek
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(Original post by wdkmwd)
Apparently when it comes to peaceful verses in the Qur'an, you don't have to look into the context and it's impossible to "cherry-pick" them.

But with the Violent verses, Oh you must look into the context Every single Islamic scholar on earth comments about, read surrounding verses, cross-reference, translate to Arabic, carefully analyse it word for word with an imam, etc etc
To be fair, you do have to be careful about where you're quoting from because people do misrepresent parts of the Qur'an. Specifically, the 9th Chapter of the Qur'an is called 'The Ultimatum' and in part refers to the ending of a peace treaty because of violations by the other side. In this context, a lot of the violence it condones is by definition retaliatory.

On the other hand, there is no shortage of quotes claiming the killing of infidels (kuffar) or apostates, amongst many others, is justified.
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Thomb
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Donald Duck knows more about foreign policy ignore his scare tactics.
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Frank Underwood
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(Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
That is a remarkably black and white way of looking at it. I'd be interested to know what you make of the following quotes from the Qur'an:

Qur'an (4:89) - "They but wish that ye should reject Faith, as they do, and thus be on the same footing (as they): But take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah (From what is forbidden). But if they turn renegades, seize them and slay them wherever ye find them; and (in any case) take no friends or helpers from their ranks."

Qur'an (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

Qur'an (9:5) - "So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captive and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush"

Qur'an (8:39) - "And fight with them until there is no more fitna (disbelief) and religion should be only for Allah"

Qur'an (9:29) - "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

And that's just the Qur'an, Hadith tends to condone even more violence.
You've failed to realise that the Qu'ran was written 1.5 millennia ago.

Islam is a particularly political religion, societies in the Middle East back 1500 years ago depended on religion - Islam was core to their society.

So any violence against apostates that was suggested 1.5 millennia ago is justified.

But Muslims have moved on since then.
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Thisguy11
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#170
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EU itself doesnt cause terror issues, home grown terror is the real issue, even without free movement getting a visa on basis of "holiday" shouldnt be too difficult
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Luke Kostanjsek
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#171
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#171
(Original post by Oilfreak1)
I agree, ISIS are certainly Muslims and real ones at that, only an idiot would state otherwise. However despite establishing a caliph they have ignored just as much of the Qu'ran and the life of the prophet just as moderates have chosen to ignore the more sour aspects of the religion.

Muslims have had problems with people like Daesh (Khajirites) pretty much since the religions inception, and they always try to come off as the more legitimate representatives of islam, making other Muslims look deficient in faith they're nothing new, they don't represent islam any better than a moderate but yes they are legitimate muslims.
Unfortunately, the morons you refer to there include most moderate Muslims, and even more worryingly, most politicians. The whole attempt to defeat ISIS is fundamentally flawed cause we seem insistent on treating them like al-qaeda or the taliban, when in reality they are a totally different entity.
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carrotstar
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#172
(Original post by wdkmwd)
I like to see you go to the Northern part of Nigeria, or Raqqa,Syria and confirm that claim.
Danger is the opposite of safety. So if safety is non-existent, then danger is also non-existent.

You can't have sweet without savoury, or happiness without sadness.

I'm just being (perhaps innapropriately for this context) philosophical :getmecoat:
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wdkmwd
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(Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
To be fair, you do have to be careful about where you're quoting from because people do misrepresent parts of the Qur'an. Specifically, the 9th Chapter of the Qur'an is called 'The Ultimatum' and in part refers to the ending of a peace treaty because of violations by the other side. In this context, a lot of the violence it condones is by definition retaliatory.

On the other hand, there is no shortage of quotes claiming the killing of infidels (kuffar) or apostates, amongst many others, is justified.


The 9th Sura according to Islamic Scholars is apparently the Final major surah revealed to Muhammed, and Muslims that actually studied their religion (which is a very minuscule number) would know that Later verses abrogate earlier verses that seem to contradict themselves. (I like how allah realised his imperfections to stop him from revealing a book free from contradictions) As Qur’an 16:101 “When We substitute one revelation for another, — and Allah knows best what He reveals (in stages), — they say, ‘Thou art but a forger’: but most of them understand not.” Note that 16:101, as well as 2:106, refers to the substituting of revelations — that is, words of Allah, and probably portions of the Qur’an
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wdkmwd
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(Original post by Frank Underwood)
You've failed to realise that the Qu'ran was written 1.5 millennia ago.

Islam is a particularly political religion, societies in the Middle East back 1500 years ago depended on religion - Islam was core to their society.

So any violence against apostates that was suggested 1.5 millennia ago is justified.

But Muslims have moved on since then.



I am COMPLETELY done with this guy.



Completely
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Luke Kostanjsek
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(Original post by Frank Underwood)
You've failed to realise that the Qu'ran was written 1.5 millennia ago.

Islam is a particularly political religion, societies in the Middle East back 1500 years ago depended on religion - Islam was core to their society.

So any violence against apostates that was suggested 1.5 millennia ago is justified.

But Muslims have moved on since then.
You've failed to realise that that argument is utterly unacceptable to a lot of Muslims. The Qur'an is Allah's word in it's most perfect and complete form. So anyone who suggested that the Qur'an's rulings do not apply any more is in a very real sense, guilty of practicing takfir. And that way of thinking isn't confined to the likes of ISIS by any stretch of the imagination.
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wdkmwd
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(Original post by carrotstar)
Danger is the opposite of safety. So if safety is non-existent, then danger is also non-existent.

You can't have sweet without savoury, or happiness without sadness.

I'm just being (perhaps innapropriately for this context) philosophical :getmecoat:

"inappropriately"



I agree with the last statement.

Sorry if I came across as a ****
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wdkmwd
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(Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
You've failed to realise that that argument is utterly unacceptable to a lot of Muslims. The Qur'an is Allah's word in it's most perfect and complete form. So anyone who suggested that the Qur'an's rulings do not apply any more is in a very real sense, guilty of practicing takfir. And that way of thinking isn't confined to the likes of ISIS by any stretch of the imagination.


Muslims say that Islam is a timeless book written for the whole of Mankind forever and ever.

Yet they claim that this so called timeless book should only be read in classical Arabic, an obscure language that even arabs sometimes have difficulty with, and here you have Frank saying that this timeless religion with it's timeless verses has some verses specifically meant for a time, which is utter and total nonsense.
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jamesthehustler
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#178
(Original post by Slutty Salafi)
Trump is right.
#hondon
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Oliver_94
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#179
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#179
(Original post by carrotstar)
Seriously? Nowhere is safe. How on Earth do you define safe? I could be hit by a meteor no matter where I'm standing. I could be hit by a car when crossing the road. I could die suddenly of a heart failure or discover I've got cancer in a matter of minutes.

Also, the USA isn't safe according to North Korea's threats..

Nowhere is safe. And on the same scale, nowhere is dangerous.
Exactly. This is what annoys me about them cancelling flights to Syria. I wanted a holiday there because no where is safe so it doesn't matter whether I'm there or in the UK
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Frank Underwood
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(Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
You've failed to realise that that argument is utterly unacceptable to a lot of Muslims. The Qur'an is Allah's word in it's most perfect and complete form. So anyone who suggested that the Qur'an's rulings do not apply any more is in a very real sense, guilty of practicing takfir. And that way of thinking isn't confined to the likes of ISIS by any stretch of the imagination.
The emboldened line is a downright lie and an insult to anyone who has eyes.
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