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Kinda Long but MUST READ!!( Interpretation of Quran quotes) watch

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    (Original post by elforjg02)
    It is open season on Islam these days,with conservative critics making remark after remark that attack Islam,Muslims, the Qur'an, and the Prophet Muhammad as pervasively and inherently bad. An essential argument these conservatives and others have against Islam is that the Qur'an preaches violence.

    The most popular verse quoted is the fabled Verse of the Sword: "Fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them: seize them, beleaguer them, and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war)." (9:5) On the surface, this verse seems to confirm Islam's perceived intolerance of non-Muslims. It may even lead one to conclude that all the talk about Islam being a religion of"peace" is a ruse, and that the real Islam is the violent, repressive faith practiced by Osama bin Laden and the Taliban. But hold on....! The truth is quite different from what these Islam's attackers want us to believe.I must address a few very important points here. For there to be any semblance of an intelligent and scholarly analysis of verses of the Qur'an, a full understanding of the Arabic language along with understanding of the context of the verses in question is an essential prerequisite. In fact, this must be the scholarly approach to the exegesis of any book of scripture, including the Hebrew and Christian Bibles.Volumes upon volumes have been written by numerous Islamic scholars, both classical and modern, that attempt to interpret the meaning of the over 6,000 verses of the Qur'an. Qur'anic exegesis is an academic discipline in itself,and it requires years of learning before a scholar is able to independently comment on Qur'anic scripture. Neither Islam's conservative critics, nor the"scholars" and "experts" they read and quote from in their writings, possess such knowledge. What they do is misquote, mistranslate,or quote Qur'anic verses out of context and use those misquotations as evidence for their claims. These tactics violate every rule of Scriptural Exegesis 101.
    When the infamous "Verse of the Sword" is studied in its proper context, it becomes quite clear that the claim the Qur'an is violent is nothing more than smoke and mirrors. From the very beginning of his mission, the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) was violently opposed by his people. At first, the Pagan Arabs simply ignored the Prophet's call and ridiculed his message.They quickly realized, however, that this tactic did not stop the flow of converts to Islam. The Meccans then turned to torture and repression of Muhammad and his companions to try to muffle his message, which was nothing more than the abandonment of the worship of idols for the worship of the One True God. Muhammad himself survived several assassination attempts. In one of these, a Meccan tried to crush the Prophet's head with a large boulder while he was praying at the Ka'abah, the holy shrine at Mecca. God, however,miraculously foiled the attempt and the Prophet was saved.





    After 10 years of hardship, the Meccans finally expelled the Prophet to Medina, a city 200 miles to the north. Since they could not kill him, this was the only thing the Meccans could do to stop the Prophet's message. There, the inhabitants of Medina accepted Islam, and it became the first Islamic city-state with the Prophet Muhammad as its spiritual and political leader. While in Medina, the Meccan pagans did not relent in their hostilities against the Muslims. Now,however, many surrounding tribes also became hostile to Islam and joined in the Meccans' fight. Several battles were fought against the Muslims. These tribes also attempted to assassinate the Prophet on several occasions, as the Meccans tried a decade earlier.
    It is in this violent context that verse 9:5 was revealed. The commandment to "slay the pagans wherever you find them" in verse 9:5 speaks of the hostile Arab tribes surrounding Medina. At every given chance, these tribes attacked the Muslims and killed as many of them as possible for no just cause! Frequently, columnists and pundits who try to smear Islam quote verse 9:5 incompletely and out of context. The full verse reads as follows: "But when the forbidden months are past, then fight and slay the Pagans wherever ye find them: seize them, beleaguer them,and lie in wait for them in every stratagem (of war); but if they repent,establish regular prayers, and practice regular charity, then open the way for them: for God is Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful."

    If one reads on in the ninth chapter, the reasons for "slaying the pagans" is clearly outlined: "Will ye not fight people who violated their oaths, plotted to expel the Messenger,and took the aggressive by being the first (to assault) you? Do ye fear them?Nay, it is God Whom ye should more justly fear, if ye believe!" (9:13) When sincere scholarship and exegesis is applied, it becomes quite clear that verse 9:5, and all others similar to it,is one of self-defense!! and NOT a carte blanche to kill all non-believers, as some would want us to believe.

    In fact, the principle of fighting in Islam is self-defense: "To those against whom war is made, permission is given (to fight), because they are wronged; and verily, God is most powerful for their aid...If God did not defend one set of people by means of another, then monasteries, churches, synagogues,and mosques, in which the name of God is commemorated in abundant measure,would surely have been destroyed..."(22:39-40)

    Notice that the reason the Qur'an gives for waging war, as a last resort, is for the protection of churches, synagogues, and mosques--so much for Islam's "intolerance."

    Further, Muslims are commanded not to be aggressive: "Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors" (2:190) In addition, when the enemy inclines toward peace, Muslims are commanded to cease hostilities: "But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace"(8:61). The guiding principle of Islam with respect to non-Muslims is one of tolerance and mutual respect, plain and simple: "God does not forbid you from dealing kindly and justly with those who do not fight you for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes: for Godloveth those who are just."(60:8)

    Then there is the issue of how the Qur'an treats Jews and Christians. Some have claimed that the Qur'an saysJ ews are consigned to "humiliation and wretchedness" (2:61), try to introduce corruption (5:64), have always been disobedient (5:78), and are enemies of God (2:97-98). When addressing verses that, on the surface, seem to be derogatory toward Jews,again, it is essential that the verses be placed in context! (remember Scriptural Exegesis 101).

    Verse 2:61 refers to those of the Children of Israel who were disobedient to Moses after being freed from Egyptian bondage, not all Jews. The text of verses 2:97-98 refer to those who are "enemies of Archangel Gabriel," not Jews. Verses 5:64 and 5:78 speak of the Jews who were disobedient to God and His Prophets, again not all Jews.

    When sincere scholarship and exegesis is applied to the Qur'an, it becomes a clear that the claim of the Qur'an's anti-Semitism is an absurd fallacy!!!

    In the Qur'an, Jews and Christians are given the honorific title of "People of the Book." The Prophet was the last in the line of Prophets and Messengers, dating back to Adam, and Islam is nothing more than the continuation and completion of their message.Thus, the Qur'an acknowledges and respects the prior messages of Moses and Jesus.

    The Torah is described as "aguide to mankind" (3:3) andthe Gospel of Jesus as having "guidance and light" (5:46). While the Qur'an rejects the notion ofthe divinity and crucifixion of Jesus, the JewishProphets that are named in the Qur'an are highly honoured: "And we gave him [Abraham] Isaac and Jacob,each did We guide, and Noah We did guide before; and of his descendants David,Solomon, Job, Joseph, and Aaron; and thus do We reward those who do good. AndZechariah, John (the Baptist), Jesus, and Elias; everyone was of the righteous.And Ishmael, Elisha, Jonah, and Lot; each one we favoured above allothers" (6:84-86).

    Further belying the accusationof the Qur'an's anti-Judeo-Christian stance is this passage: "Those who believe and those who are Jews,Christians, and Sabeans; any who believe in God and the Last Day and workrighteousness shall have their reward with their Lord and on them shall be nofear and they will not grieve"(2:62).

    Ineither deny nor dismiss the existence of Muslims who use the Qur'an to justifytheir acts of terrorism and murder. TheseMuslims, like Islam's conservative critics, also misquote or quote the Qur'anout of context. Infact, anyone with sinister intentionscan quote a verse of scripture out of context to seemingly prove a point!Biblical verses, quoted out of context, have been used to condone murder,violence, slavery, racism, and anti-Semitism, all in the name of God,throughout history. Further, take this passage from I Corinthians: "Forthe man is not of the woman; but the woman of the man. Neither was the mancreated for the woman; but the woman for the man." (I Corinthians11:8-9) Can I conclude that Christianity is a sexist religion that seeks to oppresswomen? Is it fair to characterize misinterpretations of Biblical scripture astenets of Christianity or Judaism? Absolutely not!.. Islam must be accorded this same treatment!
    actually why are u telling us this? u need to tell ISIS not us.
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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    Bring up a violent quote from the mouth of Jesus.


    I'm waiting.
    And if you say any of the violent quotes from the bible are ONLY from the old testament:

    "Jesus strongly approves of the law and the prophets. He hasn't the slightest objection to the cruelties of the Old Testament". 5:17
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    (Original post by SAhm95)
    he hasn't read the quran, don't waste ur time with him, he even failed foundation year lmfao
    This is actually kind of disgusting. What has his level of intelligence got to do with his question?

    Here is a question that you probably won't answer.

    Do you think it's right for a 50 year old man to marry a 6 year with the intention to consummate after she has her first menstruation (wether that's 9, 10, 11 whatever). This hypothetical question is for TODAY not a thousand years ago.

    I have a quite a few more questions if you want to enlighten everyone. Instead of being condensing to someone, why don't you answer his question and show him the error of his ways.
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    (Original post by elforjg02)
    "Jesus says that most people will go to hell". 7:13-14

    Go on your turn...prove to me that in the Quran it says "terrorism is right" !


    Muhammed said he was made victorious through terror in Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220
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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    actually why are u telling us this? u need to tell ISIS not us.
    Wish I could ...
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    (Original post by elforjg02)
    Wish I could ...
    conversely ISIS found little problem radicalizing people through internet
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    This is actually kind of disgusting. What has his level of intelligence got to do with his question?

    Here is a question that you probably won't answer.

    Do you think it's right for a 50 year old man to marry a 6 year with the intention to consummate after she has her first menstruation (wether that's 9, 10, 11 whatever). This hypothetical question is for TODAY not a thousand years ago.

    I have a quite a few more questions if you want to enlighten everyone. Instead of being condensing to someone, why don't you answer his question and show him the error of his ways.


    The claim about my intelligence is extremely flawed because the person who made it, is a well known troll with over 10 accounts.
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    (Original post by HucktheForde)
    conversely ISIS found little problem radicalizing people through internet
    ur telling me becuz.....
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    I like how Elforjg02 went completely silent when I provided scriptural proof of Mohammed being violent in Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220.

    Praising TERROR as his means of success.
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    (Original post by Mjcal1)
    This is actually kind of disgusting. What has his level of intelligence got to do with his question?

    Here is a question that you probably won't answer.

    Do you think it's right for a 50 year old man to marry a 6 year with the intention to consummate after she has her first menstruation (wether that's 9, 10, 11 whatever). This hypothetical question is for TODAY not a thousand years ago.

    I have a quite a few more questions if you want to enlighten everyone. Instead of being condensing to someone, why don't you answer his question and show him the error of his ways.
    what will I gain by answering his questions? nothing. I rather sit back and post on sports,fitness, funny troll etcs
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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    1 modernised. Right so the modernisation of a language prevents you from translating it into another language like English? And still getting the same message?
    My initial statement still stands, allah was too stupid to reveal the quran in a language that would not have any problems translating it to


    2. You just showed everyone your ignorance by leaving out greek when you said hebrew and aramaic because the new testament except from a few exceptions was written completely in greek by paul. never make dense claims about me not knowing my own scripture you stupid troll. I've read the Bible in and out and know more about it than you will i n your whole life. I'm not a muslim who needs some scholar to interpret a book that can't be translated into another language with problems.

    3. Irrelevant

    1) I can see your weakest point...you can't debate without watching your mouth!!! Its like I'm debating with a 5 year old...point less!! You can never show respect to your opponent ..EVER..!

    2) You're trying to convince me that my religion is violent when your hateful comments totally show ur such a peaceful individual..:rolleyes:...Says alot about your religion too.

    3)I'm not saying anything about your religion and still is respecting YOUR views so I wish you do the same too because clearly I'm not the bad one here ..you are

    4) Regarding translating the Quran...we Arabs yes although finding difficulty trying to analyse the Arabic language like anyone would do if they were trying to analyse shakespear's english language in his novels and poems, we do finally understand the meaning of the Quran ..But because Arabic is such a powerful language( like chinese or any other language) There are many Arabic words that are hard to translate fully into english or any other language.. this is why:

    Translating into English is such an imperfect process -- even frequently used Qur'anic words like "sabr" and "taqwa" have no English equivalent. Example: "sabr" doesn't just mean patience. It means continuing to try even when the odds look slim. It's like an active form of patience. Similarly, "taqwa" isn't just being aware of something, it's much more subtle, it means to show extra precaution.

    5) Again, I did not offend your religion as part of my religion and duties is to respect you religion and religions around the world. After all we are all human beings. So I would prefer for you not to offend my religion or Allah.
    Thanks
    6) With a mouth like yours..trust me..it aint gonna get u anywhere
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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    I like how Elforjg02 went completely silent when I provided scriptural proof of Mohammed being violent in Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 220.

    Praising TERROR as his means of success.
    hmm what was that again?look into the context of why it was said and to who SPECIFICALLY!

    “I tell you that to everyone who has, more shall be given, but from the one who does not have, even what he does have shall be taken away. But these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slay them in my presence. (Luke 19:26-27)

    “When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you. And when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them. (Deutronomy 7:1-2)

    "Do not think that I have come to send peace on earth. I did not come to send peace, but a sword. I am sent to set a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law" (Matthew 10:34-35)
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    (Original post by elforjg02)
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    There are endless verses of violence in the Quran. Prophet Muhammad (who you worship) had sex with a 9 year old, kept slaves and spread Islam through war. You are completely brainwashed.
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    (Original post by elforjg02)
    1) I can see your weakest point...you can't debate without watching your mouth!!! Its like I'm debating with a 5 year old...point less!! You can never show respect to your opponent ..EVER..!

    2) You're trying to convince me that my religion is violent when your hateful comments totally show ur such a peaceful individual..:rolleyes:...Says alot about your religion too.

    3)I'm not saying anything about your religion and still is respecting YOUR views so I wish you do the same too because clearly I'm not the bad one here ..you are

    4) Regarding translating the Quran...we Arabs yes although finding difficulty trying to analyse the Arabic language like anyone would do if they were trying to analyse shakespear's english language in his novels and poems, we do finally understand the meaning of the Quran ..But because Arabic is such a powerful language( like chinese or any other language) There are many Arabic words that are hard to translate fully into english or any other language.. this is why:

    Translating into English is such an imperfect process -- even frequently used Qur'anic words like "sabr" and "taqwa" have no English equivalent. Example: "sabr" doesn't just mean patience. It means continuing to try even when the odds look slim. It's like an active form of patience. Similarly, "taqwa" isn't just being aware of something, it's much more subtle, it means to show extra precaution.

    5) Again, I did not offend your religion as part of my religion and duties is to respect you religion and religions around the world. After all we are all human beings. So I would prefer for you not to offend my religion or Allah.
    Thanks
    6) With a mouth like yours..trust me..it aint gonna get u anywhere



    1. You should have grouped your 1st 2nd and 3rd point all into just one point because all you did was talk about the way I talk. Maybe I can ease up on the way I address my issues but that's an argument for another time.

    2. Shakespare's English was written in a medievel form of English i agree, kind of like the King james Bible, with all the Thou art, let hither to, etc etc, but the difference between our books is I do not have to rely on some scholar to spoonfeed me with what I need to read and understand from the Bible, because If I don't understand it, I'll just look up another version with no discrepancies. The same can't be said for the Qur'an which is why I wonder why many non muslims follow the religion if you're Only supposed to read and recite it in a language no one seems to Understand.

    3.WOW. You respect my religion. That's soooo great. If only the other Millions of Jihadis and terrorists in the world were like you. I probably wouldn't be on this forum to begin with
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    Just ban this stupid pork already. This isn't even a discussion any longer; only bashing on the islam.
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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    1. You should have grouped your 1st 2nd and 3rd point all into just one point because all you did was talk about the way I talk. Maybe I can ease up on the way I address my issues but that's an argument for another time.

    2. Shakespare's English was written in a medievel form of English i agree, kind of like the King james Bible, with all the Thou art, let hither to, etc etc, but the difference between our books is I do not have to rely on some scholar to spoonfeed me with what I need to read and understand from the Bible, because If I don't understand it, I'll just look up another version with no discrepancies. The same can't be said for the Qur'an which is why I wonder why many non muslims follow the religion if you're Only supposed to read and recite it in a language no one seems to Understand.

    3.WOW. You respect my religion. That's soooo great. If only the other Millions of Jihadis and terrorists in the world were like you. I probably wouldn't be on this forum to begin with
    1) Who said we are spoon fed by scholars and are unable to understand the quran ourselves? ..what I was trying to say that there is a few phrases maybe even words that can have different meanings to it again, relating to the islamic context and history. Therefore scholars that are experts in the arabic language further analyse and research to find the exact meaning of the words in order for no-one to be confused. Why spoon feed us? when all we want to know is SOME meanings of the words not the whole Quran...to us..its like looking up into a dictionary but a more precise one So don't be confused into why many non-muslims convert if all they are gonna do is read and not understand. And please note that Arabic scholars don't necessarily have to be muslims themselves..Just a person who is an expert in the language and can be able to link it to the history and the context of Islam. E.g An arabic lebanese can be christian like you and can be an Arabic scholar too

    2) And yeah I wish those terrorists actually had the full knowledge and the right interpretation of the Quran before they interpret it in their own sinister eyes. And I do wish they respect other religions like I myself, otherwise, I wouldn't always have to make myself clear that not all muslims think that's right and that many people interpret the Quran in the wrong way. You would need to have the full knowledge of the Islamic history, ahadiths and why they were said (which context), and most importantly the Arabic language. Because anyone could pick any quote in the Quran and directly read it assuming it means something without looking at the context of why it was said , when and to who exactly it was said/directed.
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    (Original post by SAhm95)
    what will I gain by answering his questions? nothing. I rather sit back and post on sports,fitness, funny troll etcs
    I used to be exactly like you lol. Ashamed of parts of the religion i believed in. I'm sure you wouldn't want to answer questions on slavery, crazy punishment of certain crimes as well.

    Here's an intersting question you might want to answer. If 1.6 billion people go to heaven and the rest of the 7+ billion go to hell (people that are Muslims and people who aren't), is God 'all loving' and 'most compassionate'?

    This is a genuine question. I really don't see how it works, and quite frankly tired of hearing "God knows best"
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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    The claim about my intelligence is extremely flawed because the person who made it, is a well known troll with over 10 accounts.
    You're very rude and despicable. I myself am a Christian and I find it disgusting that you come here and insult others religions. What would Jesus think of this? You are taking the violence that is written in the Quran out of context, it was originally written at a time where Islam was oppressed by other religion including my own religion, the Christians. The violence was there to protect islam. You taking the quotes literally shows your ignorance and plain stupidity and this form of religious hatred is despicable. Dont you ever claim to be Christian you unholy Buffoon!

    And i saw on your account + on the thread where the troll abused you, which shows that you did indeed fail foundation course at uni, however much you deny it and edit your posts. Don't come on a peaceful site and hate on others when you need to get yourself an education.
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    (Original post by jokesonyou)
    You're very rude and despicable. I myself am a Christian and I find it disgusting that you come here and insult others religions. What would Jesus think of this? You are taking the violence that is written in the Quran out of context, it was originally written at a time where Islam was oppressed by other religion including my own religion, the Christians. The violence was there to protect islam. You taking the quotes literally shows your ignorance and plain stupidity and this form of religious hatred is despicable. Dont you ever claim to be Christian you unholy Buffoon!

    And i saw on your account + on the thread where the troll abused you, which shows that you did indeed fail foundation course at uni, however much you deny it and edit your posts. Don't come on a peaceful site and hate on others when you need to get yourself an education.


    Hey Asap, no matter how many accounts you create and how many times you get banned. You'll never get to me. All you do is lie, create a new account, get banned and repeat. Plus all that garbage you spew about the violent verses in the Qur'an only coming down because muslims were being prosecuted is pure and utter horse crap because even Islamic scholars like Ibn Katir will tell you that that wasn't the case at all.


    So please stop disturbing me, I've left you alone. So now you do the same and ƒuck off you pathetic autistic troll.
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    (Original post by wdkmwd)
    Hey Asap, no matter how many accounts you create and how many times you get banned. You'll never get to me. All you do is lie, create a new account, get banned and repeat. Plus all that garbage you spew about the violent verses in the Qur'an only coming down because muslims were being prosecuted is pure and utter horse crap because even Islamic scholars like Ibn Katir will tell you that that wasn't the case at all.


    So please stop disturbing me, I've left you alone. So now you do the same and ƒuck off you pathetic autistic troll.
    You think im a troll? I guess you saw that i have a new account and jumped to conclusions? Pathetic, you are.

    No, everything you said was wrong.

    The worst thing about this is that you come here and call yourself a Christian. You're no Christian!
 
 
 
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