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Teachers demand schools stop promoting British values over cultural supremacy fears watch

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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    I find your misrepresentation and demonisation of teachers absolutely vile. You have completely distorted and politicised their argument and clearly do not understand how this scheme has been implemented. The implementation of this 'Prevent' scheme has been a joke. Nobody even knows what "British values" is supposed to mean in the first place, there has been practically no guidance given to teachers on how they're supposed to be promoting "British values" and above all, teachers know how to do their job better than bureaucrats in government who haven't had any experience of teaching in their lives. Teachers are already trained in safeguarding, the only thing this new policy has done is introduced a culture of suspicion as this article shows (by the way, I can't believe that you have the audacity to tell teachers that they have a "ridiculous political bias" and then use that excuse of journalism from the Daily Mail to support your point).

    Teachers are, generally speaking, brilliant at their jobs. This top-down intervention from government over the past few years has ruined the teaching profession. The environment that teachers have to deal with in state schools these days is toxic, the amount of bureaucracy they're having to deal with is dangerously infringing their ability to do what their job is supposed to entail - teaching. And yet, despite these conditions, teachers continue to deal with low pay and disgraceful working conditions because they care about what they do. And yet people like you feel you have the right to attack them yet again for caring about the welfare of children, under the banner of "they're all a bunch of crazy lefties". It sickens me.
    I find the teaching "profession" (can hardly type that without laughing) vile on the whole.
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    British culture is supreme because we are in Britain.
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    (Original post by Phoebe Buffay)
    Ok so I have some objections to this.

    The first is that nobody has mentioned the 'Prevent' scheme. Could you then please describe how exactly teachers have had their arguments 'completely distorted'. My comments. and those of others in this thread, are a reaction to the words of Mr Denson, which I don't believe you are disputing.

    The second...you say

    'Nobody even knows what "British values" is supposed to mean in the first place, there has been practically no guidance given to teachers on how they're supposed to be promoting "British values" and above all, teachers know how to do their job better than bureaucrats in government who haven't had any experience of teaching in their lives'

    I can accept there may have been no guidance. In which case, it is perfectly acceptable to be politically neutral and not decide to teach these things.

    The objections of myself and others is that teachers' have gone the other way, and are teaching students things which some people consider unacceptable. I can accept issues of safeguarding, and letting teachers do their jobs, but this does not explain the words and actions of people like Mr Denson.

    Finally, let me remind you those people in government, while not having much experience in teaching, have been elected. We are seriously tampering when we allow unelected officials to decide what should/shouldn't be taught.
    A headline that screams "Militant teachers demand schools stop promoting "British values" as it makes children from other cultures feel inferior" is so completely distorted I don't know where to begin. Firstly, the use of the word militant - there's absolutely nothing militant about these teachers. Secondly, nobody is demanding that schools stop promoting British values (putting aside, for a moment, the fact that nobody seems to know what that means), what they're opposing is having these vague obligations shoved in their faces from above by the authorities which is a huge insult against their ability to teach and adds yet an additional layer of bureaucracy on them. Secondly, whilst I don't disagree with the argument that it could alienate against other cultures, that's not the core of the argument against it. The point is that teachers are more than capable of teaching their students to be responsible British citizens without having these ridiculous laws being imposed on them.

    The point is, it's not just "perfectly acceptable to be politically neutral and not decide to teach these things", I don't think you quite understand what's actually going on. This is now part of the criteria that teachers are being assessed on in observations. It's one of the criteria that's now required for teachers to be rated positively by OFSTED. Teachers are being forced to include "British values" in their lessons, nothing is optional about this.

    Regarding your last argument, I don't understand the relevance. Firstly, nobody ever voted for these particular policies. Most of the current Tory education policy wasn't in their manifesto. Secondly, the fact that they've technically been elected (or rather, appointed by someone who was elected by less than a quarter of the population) doesn't change the fact that they clearly haven't got a clue what they're doing. The fact that the overwhelming majority of teachers - the specialists in teaching who know far more about teaching than a bunch of politicians who have zero education experience - think these policies are insane shows just how irresponsible and reckless the DoE is being.
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    (Original post by NickLCFC)
    British culture is supreme because we are in Britain.
    prsom
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    (Original post by Howard)
    Nothing that is vomited from the mouths of the NUT ever surprises me.
    Same here, but it still managed to depress me.

    I hold out some hope that the fashionably and superficially left-wing morons of the NUT do not represent a high proportion of teachers across the land, but I have a feeling they do.
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    As someone who's school and sixth form were talking about "British Values" last year, we all found it ludicrous. When we asked our teachers what it even meant, they said it was about respecting other people's beliefs, about being tolerant and accepting of different races, genders, sexualities etc, about not discriminating based on these, and so on.

    (NOTE: They have nothing to do with laws or the history of Britain, or at least that wasn't what they were told to teach. It was purely about tolerance and not discriminating.)

    We pointed out that surely these weren't specifically British values, and should probably be referred to as "How Not To Be A ****" instead, and the teachers just laughed and agreed and said that unfortunately they had to teach them exactly as the curriculum had said, with all the references to "British culture" and "British values" included, because Ofsted would check.

    I don't disagree with teaching kids about that stuff, but I do disagree with calling them "British values", as if most other countries didn't also subscribe to those rules. Obviously not ALL countries are tolerant etc, but it's stupid to think of them as specifically British traits.
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    A headline that screams "Militant teachers demand schools stop promoting "British values" as it makes children from other cultures feel inferior" is so completely distorted I don't know where to begin. Firstly, the use of the word militant - there's absolutely nothing militant about these teachers. Secondly, nobody is demanding that schools stop promoting British values (putting aside, for a moment, the fact that nobody seems to know what that means), what they're opposing is having these vague obligations shoved in their faces from above by the authorities which is a huge insult against their ability to teach and adds yet an additional layer of bureaucracy on them. Secondly, whilst I don't disagree with the argument that it could alienate against other cultures, that's not the core of the argument against it. The point is that teachers are more than capable of teaching their students to be responsible British citizens without having these ridiculous laws being imposed on them.

    I don't think teachers are capable of 'teaching their students to be responsible British citizens'. The reason why I think this is because of comments like Mr Denson's.

    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    The point is, it's not just "perfectly acceptable to be politically neutral and not decide to teach these things", I don't think you quite understand what's actually going on. This is now part of the criteria that teachers are being assessed on in observations. It's one of the criteria that's now required for teachers to be rated positively by OFSTED. Teachers are being forced to include "British values" in their lessons, nothing is optional about this.

    Regarding your last argument, I don't understand the relevance. Firstly, nobody ever voted for these particular policies. Most of the current Tory education policy wasn't in their manifesto. Secondly, the fact that they've technically been elected (or rather, appointed by someone who was elected by less than a quarter of the population) doesn't change the fact that they clearly haven't got a clue what they're doing. The fact that the overwhelming majority of teachers - the specialists in teaching who know far more about teaching than a bunch of politicians who have zero education experience - think these policies are insane shows just how irresponsible and reckless the DoE is being.
    You have entirely glossed over my point about teachers teaching things that they have decided for themselves. You talk about how little right the government has to do these things, 'technically been elected' etc etc. The fact is that teachers have even less right to decide.
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    if christopher denson is not a cuck,noones a cuck.
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I find the teaching "profession" (can hardly type that without laughing) vile on the whole.
    Yeah I guess they have a lot of brushing up to do.

    After all, they apparently produced a load of anti-intellectual ideologues, many of whom appear to be fans of Donald Trump.
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    British values give you the opportunity to oppose British values
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    It's silly to try to say there's something uniquely British about the values of human rights, free speech or democracy. Actually, given we currently have a government committed to stifling free speech in academia, unilaterally changing the electoral system to put themselves at a massive advantage and abolishing human rights, I'd say they have precious little authority to be preaching to anyone about these 'values' right now. Schools shouldn't be telling children what to believed anyway but encouraging them to research and think critically for themselves. One of the most distinctive things about Britain is the fact that we've always had a lot of different culutural backgrounds, be they historically between Catholics and Protestants, the different nations of the UK, or even regions such as Yorkshire - "British Culture" is incredibly multifaceted and that's fantastic, but it does make it even harder to promote in a classroom where you have children from so many different backgrounds. That's why we need to let the teachers stick to teaching and allow children to learn about their background and culture at home from their own familities instead.
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    From the Canadian perspective, the level of self-flagellation and distaste the Brits often have regarding their own culture is shocking. It's sad, almost. Here, for example, the maple leaf is found proudly on damn near everything (both literally and figuratively speaking). Yet you guys worry that displaying your national flag - or having any patriotic pride whatsoever - will 'offend' the immigrants and promote nationalist fascism. It's insane. It's pathetic.

    In Canada, the promotion of Canadian values isn't considered problematic or a form of 'cultural supremacism' in any way, shape, or form. Most immigrants here are highly supportive of Canadian values, as among those values are a strong commitment to freedom, equality, and respect. We aren't ashamed of our culture, and we don't shy away from promoting it; we embrace it, and we encourage newcomers to embrace it, too.
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    (Original post by Phoebe Buffay)
    The things that Mr Denson objects to, like the teachings on democracy, the law, our rights, are built into the bedrock of our society. Without teaching these things, how will you ever hope to be a proper citizen of this country.

    What he says also contain some dangerous lies. I see that he gets very close to confounding being against taking in refugees with racism.
    We should teach this things, but also not pretend they are unique to britain. Is Britain the only democracy in the world? This is just more colonialism, when we assume our culture is better than others. Lets not alienate other cultures. Tolerance is the key.

    Why would you be against taking in refugees, if it weren't for racist or xenophobic reasons? We are a rich nation, they are in desperate need. We can spare the resources
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
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    Canadians are immigrants anyway - you are the 'newcomers'

    May I remind you that Canada, America, Australia, etc. were formed from stolen lands?
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    (Original post by ElspethC)
    As someone who's school and sixth form were talking about "British Values" last year, we all found it ludicrous. When we asked our teachers what it even meant, they said it was about respecting other people's beliefs, about being tolerant and accepting of different races, genders, sexualities etc, about not discriminating based on these, and so on.

    (NOTE: They have nothing to do with laws or the history of Britain, or at least that wasn't what they were told to teach. It was purely about tolerance and not discriminating.)

    We pointed out that surely these weren't specifically British values, and should probably be referred to as "How Not To Be A ****" instead, and the teachers just laughed and agreed and said that unfortunately they had to teach them exactly as the curriculum had said, with all the references to "British culture" and "British values" included, because Ofsted would check.

    I don't disagree with teaching kids about that stuff, but I do disagree with calling them "British values", as if most other countries didn't also subscribe to those rules. Obviously not ALL countries are tolerant etc, but it's stupid to think of them as specifically British traits.
    Saying something is a British value isn't the same as saying it's a uniquely British value. For example, I could say honesty is one of my personal values. But am I claiming that I am the only person on Earth that values honesty? No, I'm not.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    From the Canadian perspective, the level of self-flagellation and distaste the Brits often have regarding their own culture is shocking. It's sad, almost. Here, for example, the maple leaf is found proudly on damn near everything (both literally and figuratively speaking). Yet you guys worry that displaying your national flag - or having any patriotic pride whatsoever - will 'offend' the immigrants and promote nationalist fascism. It's insane. It's pathetic.
    I couldn't agree more strongly with this. It's an infuriating form of pseudo-intellectualism. As far as I can tell it's more or less exclusively European.

    However, we have to remember that it's not necessarily the general public that feels this way. Have a look at this yougov poll. It seems to be largely the preserve of the Blob and its recent victims.

    I wonder if part of the problem is that teaching in the state sector is not a sufficiently attractive prospect to take on serious people anymore.
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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    We should teach this things, but also not pretend they are unique to britain. Is Britain the only democracy in the world? This is just more colonialism, when we assume our culture is better than others. Lets not alienate other cultures. Tolerance is the key.
    I agree. Nowhere did I claim otherwise.

    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    Why would you be against taking in refugees, if it weren't for racist or xenophobic reasons? We are a rich nation, they are in desperate need. We can spare the resources
    Plenty of reasons. The first is that usually when we take in refugees, they are dispersed in some of the poorer areas of the country. Areas of the country which are already struggling. And there are plenty of people already here who are in desperate need of help and yet are not being helped.

    Secondly, many people coming here attempting to claim asylum come undocumented, meaning that we are not able to establish if they pose a security threat to us.

    Third, the scale of movement of people into Europe is so vast that I think it is impossible to properly integrate refugees into our society. Effects of this are being seen particularly in Sweden and Germany. This is especially pertinent, as most that come here come from countries that are so culturally unlike our own (and this is not xenophobic or racist, but a fact).



    Out of interest, you say we should take in refugees. Care to give a number? And from where should we take them?
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    (Original post by EccentricDiamond)
    Non white values are inferior to European values
    Oh please

    Lets look at the Roman Empire - a European country - which practiced slavery and infanticide

    A much worse place than modern South Africa - a non-white country - which is a very tolerant and multicultural society
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    (Original post by Phoebe Buffay)
    This is especially pertinent, as most that come here come from countries that are so culturally unlike our own (and this is not xenophobic or racist, but a fact).
    That is xenophobia though? A dislike of foreign cultures, simply because they are foreign, leading you to dislike immigrants?
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    Should be tried for treason.
 
 
 
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