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Teachers demand schools stop promoting British values over cultural supremacy fears Watch

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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    We should teach this things, but also not pretend they are unique to britain. Is Britain the only democracy in the world? This is just more colonialism, when we assume our culture is better than others. Lets not alienate other cultures. Tolerance is the key.
    I agree. Nowhere did I claim otherwise.

    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    Why would you be against taking in refugees, if it weren't for racist or xenophobic reasons? We are a rich nation, they are in desperate need. We can spare the resources
    Plenty of reasons. The first is that usually when we take in refugees, they are dispersed in some of the poorer areas of the country. Areas of the country which are already struggling. And there are plenty of people already here who are in desperate need of help and yet are not being helped.

    Secondly, many people coming here attempting to claim asylum come undocumented, meaning that we are not able to establish if they pose a security threat to us.

    Third, the scale of movement of people into Europe is so vast that I think it is impossible to properly integrate refugees into our society. Effects of this are being seen particularly in Sweden and Germany. This is especially pertinent, as most that come here come from countries that are so culturally unlike our own (and this is not xenophobic or racist, but a fact).



    Out of interest, you say we should take in refugees. Care to give a number? And from where should we take them?
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    (Original post by EccentricDiamond)
    Non white values are inferior to European values
    Oh please

    Lets look at the Roman Empire - a European country - which practiced slavery and infanticide

    A much worse place than modern South Africa - a non-white country - which is a very tolerant and multicultural society
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    (Original post by Phoebe Buffay)
    This is especially pertinent, as most that come here come from countries that are so culturally unlike our own (and this is not xenophobic or racist, but a fact).
    That is xenophobia though? A dislike of foreign cultures, simply because they are foreign, leading you to dislike immigrants?
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    Should be tried for treason.
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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    That is xenophobia though? A dislike of foreign cultures, simply because they are foreign, leading you to dislike immigrants?
    Who said I dislike immigrants? I said no such thing.

    Care to engage with the rest of what I wrote?
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    (Original post by Plagioclase)
    I find your misrepresentation and demonisation of teachers absolutely vile. You have completely distorted and politicised their argument and clearly do not understand how this scheme has been implemented. The implementation of this 'Prevent' scheme has been a joke. Nobody even knows what "British values" is supposed to mean in the first place, there has been practically no guidance given to teachers on how they're supposed to be promoting "British values" and above all, teachers know how to do their job better than bureaucrats in government who haven't had any experience of teaching in their lives. Teachers are already trained in safeguarding, the only thing this new policy has done is introduced a culture of suspicion as this article shows (by the way, I can't believe that you have the audacity to tell teachers that they have a "ridiculous political bias" and then use that excuse of journalism from the Daily Mail to support your point).

    Teachers are, generally speaking, brilliant at their jobs. This top-down intervention from government over the past few years has ruined the teaching profession. The environment that teachers have to deal with in state schools these days is toxic, the amount of bureaucracy they're having to deal with is dangerously infringing their ability to do what their job is supposed to entail - teaching. And yet, despite these conditions, teachers continue to deal with low pay and disgraceful working conditions because they care about what they do. And yet people like you feel you have the right to attack them yet again for caring about the welfare of children, under the banner of "they're all a bunch of crazy lefties". It sickens me.
    I generally disagree with government intervention on education, cause they almost invariably manage to **** it up. But I think you're being incredibly naive with some of your comments there.

    Firstly, I don't really see any misrepresentation. I absolutely agree that the way the government has gone about putting this 'Prevent' scheme in place is laughable, and that 'British values' is a rather vague, wishy-washy thing to teach. But that is not what the NUT is saying. These aren't quotes complaining about the implementation of the scheme, they're quotes about the very idea of teaching British values. I mean, one of them literally says teaching British values is demeaning to other cultures and that it's racist!! So whilst I agree with you on that the way the scheme has been put together is daft, what the teachers are talking about here is the idea that teaching British values is inherently wrong. That is a stance that I personally find abhorrent, and I'd be deeply concerned at the prospect of having a child taught by a teacher who held British values in such contempt.

    Secondly, suggesting teachers aren't one of the most politically biased groups going is laughable. Everyone knows teachers as a rule are deeply left wing, it's where all this nonsense comes from. You know that teaching is a left-wing dominated profession, I know it, we all know it. So lets not pretend otherwise.

    Everything you said about teaching conditions I largely agree with, although it's entirely irrelevant to a discussion about these comments about the 'dangers' of teaching British values. If I didn't know any better, I would say you're trying to strawman this.
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    What are "British" values anyway? British values are nothing more than a bunch of generic PC friendly values that could be applied to any western liberal democratic country.
    There's nothing distinctly British or English about modern British values and it's one of the reasons why many immigrants who settle in the UK feel less compelled to integrate.
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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    We should teach this things, but also not pretend they are unique to britain. Is Britain the only democracy in the world? This is just more colonialism, when we assume our culture is better than others. Lets not alienate other cultures. Tolerance is the key.

    Why would you be against taking in refugees, if it weren't for racist or xenophobic reasons? We are a rich nation, they are in desperate need. We can spare the resources
    Ah, we meet again. Yet another claim that opposing open-door immigration makes one racist. How about being against it because it opens the door to terrorists from the middle east? How about being against it because if we keep inviting them, they'll keep coming until we can take no more in? How about being against it because it's to the detriment of our society, as evidenced by Germany?

    To call someone racist because they have a different view to you on immigration is incredibly intolerant, which is ironic given as you claim to oppose that.
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    (Original post by Dandaman1)
    From the Canadian perspective, the level of self-flagellation and distaste the Brits often have regarding their own culture is shocking. It's sad, almost. Here, for example, the maple leaf is found proudly on damn near everything (both literally and figuratively speaking). Yet you guys worry that displaying your national flag - or having any patriotic pride whatsoever - will 'offend' the immigrants and promote nationalist fascism. It's insane. It's pathetic.

    In Canada, the promotion of Canadian values isn't considered problematic or a form of 'cultural supremacism' in any way, shape, or form. Most immigrants here are highly supportive of Canadian values, as among those values are a strong commitment to freedom, equality, and respect. We aren't ashamed of our culture, and we don't shy away from promoting it; we embrace it, and we encourage newcomers to embrace it, too.
    Don't mistake the views of the noisy minority fascist left wing in the country to that of the views of the majority of Britons. Most of which are happy to see lots of British flags everywhere etc.
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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    That is xenophobia though? A dislike of foreign cultures, simply because they are foreign, leading you to dislike immigrants?
    I doubt she dislikes foreign cultures merely because they're foreign. More likely, it's because they treat women reprehensibly, treat the LGBT.... community reprehensibly, disagree with the idea of freedom of speech, believe that religion takes precedence over law..............(insert one of the multitude of other reasons why middle eastern and north african cultures are some of the most intolerant in the world).
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    (Original post by RivalPlayer)
    What are "British" values anyway? British values are nothing more than a bunch of generic PC friendly values that could be applied to any western liberal democratic country.
    There's nothing distinctly British or English about modern British values and it's one of the reasons why many immigrants who settle in the UK feel less compelled to integrate.
    Whilst I am for "British values", I am with you in that the values that schools teach are not what I would chose. A more reflective "British value" that more accurately reflects the nation is the "put Britain first" (and rightly so), but that of course would not be PC.
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    (Original post by The Genghis Khan)
    **** you
    You have added so much to the debate, thank you for your input
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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    Canadians are immigrants anyway - you are the 'newcomers'

    May I remind you that Canada, America, Australia, etc. were formed from stolen lands?
    Name one country where its people just sprung up out of the ground (and no, Ethiopia doesn't count).

    Regardless, if you were born somewhere, you aren't an immigrant there. It's as really simple as that. A white Canadian baby is just as much a 'newcomer' to the country as a Native American baby.

    Most nations were formed from 'acquired' territories and hostile takeovers from foreigners, anyway. Do you think the same people always lived in England, Egypt, Iraq, Spain...? Even in the Americas, the different tribes and nations here before were continuously invading and conquering one-another.
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    (Original post by Phoebe Buffay)
    Who said I dislike immigrants? I said no such thing.

    Care to engage with the rest of what I wrote?
    You make some good points, but there are easy solutions to your concerns. E.g. put refugees in richer areas. Provide education in modern multicultural values and tolerance to these refugees. Provide treatment for their mental health, after being in a war zone. Etc.
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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    Oh please

    Lets look at the Roman Empire - a European country - which practiced slavery and infanticide

    A much worse place than modern South Africa - a non-white country - which is a very tolerant and multicultural society
    Really you have to go back 3000 odd years to prove a point

    the year is 2016
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)
    I doubt she dislikes foreign cultures merely because they're foreign. More likely, it's because they treat women reprehensibly, treat the LGBT.... community reprehensibly, disagree with the idea of freedom of speech, believe that religion takes precedence over law..............(insert one of the multitude of other reasons why middle eastern and north african cultures are some of the most intolerant in the world).
    Whenever there is a rape blamed on refugees, the far right is always so quick to pretend they are for womens rights, except they are against abortion and other things

    They hate feminism unless it suits them

    Same probably for LGBT rights, freedom of speech etc.
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    (Original post by BaconandSauce)
    Really you have to go back 3000 odd years to prove a point

    the year is 2016
    Medieval Europe was hardly a bastion of peace and tolerance either, was it? The crusades, anyone?

    The british empire? Nazis? Israel? Plenty of more recent examples
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    (Original post by Mathemagicien)
    This contradicts Plagioclase ; British values are specified as those things in the curriculum?
    Well, I'm not the one that set the curriculum or anything, and I haven't seen it written down on paper, but yes - that's what our teachers said it included. Apparently the younger years had an entire lesson on this (we're doing A-Levels, so we didn't) and I don't think they were taught anything about laws other than the fact that discrimination is against the law, and that they were encouraged to be more tolerant.

    We were also told that the main reason for all of this was to fight against the radicalisation of school children - a school nearby was apparently penalised by Ofsted because one kid couldn't tell the inspectors what ISIS was - but I kind of feel like by calling it "British" values this could undermine the whole thing. An immigrant child or the child of immigrant parents, who doesn't feel entirely British, would simultaneously be at a higher risk of radicalisation and feel like they were being excluded from these "values" on basis of their nationality/culture. I just feel like saying "British values! We're nice and tolerant! Don't go hurting other people!" (which is essentially the wishy-washy curriculum that was given to teachers) is a very strange thing to implement and that it isn't helpful in the slightest.
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    (Original post by Multiculturalism)
    You make some good points, but there are easy solutions to your concerns. E.g. put refugees in richer areas. Provide education in modern multicultural values and tolerance to these refugees. Provide treatment for their mental health, after being in a war zone. Etc.
    If it were only that easy...

    Do you think that a few classes are going to reverse their opinions on womens' rights, on gay people etc etc. In fact, I know that this will not work, because the German and the Swedish people have done this, and it has failed.
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    It's not our fault other cultures are failing and need to live in countries that can help sustain them.

    But people are getting very annoyed now about this and I do expect a backlash (and rightly so)

    First Step is leaving the EU
 
 
 
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