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should britain stay in the eu? watch

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    (Original post by Ellie4)
    :rolleyes: I've said all I'm going to say on this, I'm not going to sit here and constantly repeat myself. I don't think we're making sacrifices to be in the EU, as I've said, I don't think withdrawing at this present moment is a good idea, as I've said and free trade agreements are all very well but it remains to be seen at the present time that leaving the EU wouldn't have a detrimental effect on the UK's trade, again, as I've already said. Debate this with someone else if you're not getting the answers you want from me.
    how about justifying what youve said?
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    im sorry, who are you?
    ive been arguing in the thread for a while, but recently you decided to enter drag up a load of old points which have already been argued and ram them over and over again into everybodies faces, until the point of desperation where it is mind numbingly boring and i ni longer want to look at the thread.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    But Vienna had already started explaining how Britain is making substantial sacrifices, and all that is being said in response is "I can't see any real sacrifices being made." It's fresh stuff.
    Actually everything she's just said in her above post, has already been bought up, perhaps with the exception of the demographic argument. Britain has an ageing pop, so does the EU as a whole, alone we have an ageing pop, together we have an ageing pop... "at least we would have the ability to adapt economically to the demands of our demographic" - surely the same adpatations would be made by the EU???
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    (Original post by endorf)
    ive been arguing in the thread for a while, but recently you decided to enter drag up a load of old points which have already been argued and ram them over and over again into everybodies faces, until the point of desperation where it is mind numbingly boring and i ni longer want to look at the thread.
    ellie made alot of statements. i read the thread. there is no argument, since its just more iterative statement. my post wanted elaboraton on those statements that she has been repeating and i felt were completely unjustified or, at times, contradictory. im sure you have your own ideas, but instead of everyone giving their soundbyte or analogy of what the EU is or isnt, how about arguing them sufficiently. i dont find that mind-numbingly boring.
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    (Original post by endorf)
    ive been arguing in the thread for a while, but recently you decided to enter drag up a load of old points which have already been argued and ram them over and over again into everybodies faces, until the point of desperation where it is mind numbingly boring and i ni longer want to look at the thread.
    I completely agree. When me and endorf we talking about it, it was interesting, because our arguments were new. Our debate came to a close, and now you're just trying to regurgitate it.
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    (Original post by Ellie4)
    Actually everything she's just said in her above post, has already been bought up, perhaps with the exception of the demographic argument. Britain has an ageing pop, so does the EU as a whole, alone we have an ageing pop, together we have an ageing pop... "at least we would have the ability to adapt economically to the demands of our demographic" - surely the same adpatations would be made by the EU???
    if the explicit point of what sacrifices are being made has already been brought up in this thread then find the post which supports your argument and quote it.
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    (Original post by Ellie4)
    Actually everything she's just said in her above post, has already been bought up, perhaps with the exception of the demographic argument. Britain has an ageing pop, so does the EU as a whole, alone we have an ageing pop, together we have an ageing pop... "at least we would have the ability to adapt economically to the demands of our demographic" - surely the same adpatations would be made by the EU???
    The adaptations would be better by the EU, remember that in countries like France and Italy, the majority of the population depend upon state pensions. If their population ages, then there's a massive drain on government revenue. Italy at the moment has a ratio of 1 pensioner to 0.7 workers.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    ellie made alot of statements. i read the thread. there is no argument, since its just more iterative statement. my post wanted elaboraton on those statements that she has been repeating and i felt were completely unjustified or, at times, contradictory. im sure you have your own ideas, but instead of everyone giving their soundbyte or analogy of what the EU is or isnt, how about arguing them sufficiently. i dont find that mind-numbingly boring.
    You only think they're unjustfied because they're not your views, and which points exactly have been contradictory?
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    (Original post by Ellie4)
    Actually everything she's just said in her above post, has already been bought up,
    'brought up' does not equal 'argued' and/or 'justified' in my book, and certainly not in my experience of this forum.

    perhaps with the exception of the demographic argument. Britain has an ageing pop, so does the EU as a whole, alone we have an ageing pop, together we have an ageing pop... "at least we would have the ability to adapt economically to the demands of our demographic" - surely the same adpatations would be made by the EU???
    you just stated that different countries would have different demographics and now you suggest that the EU applies a single policy to adapt to the demographic of 25+ countries. this clarifies my point, "at least WE would have the ability to adapt economically to the demands of OUR demographic"
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    wow this thread is getting nasty, Vienna try being nice for once, it doesn't make you very lady like
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    you just stated that different countries would have different demographics and now you suggest that the EU applies a single policy to adapt to the demographic of 25+ countries. this clarifies my point, "at least WE would have the ability to adapt economically to the demands of OUR demographic"
    Yes but our demographic is similar to that of the EU average, countries like Italy etc have higher dependency ratios, other Eastern europena countries have younger demographics. Working on the assumption the EU would form a policy on the average, this would be similar to what we would enforce anyway.
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    (Original post by endorf)
    ive been arguing in the thread for a while, but recently you decided to enter drag up a load of old points which have already been argued and ram them over and over again into everybodies faces, until the point of desperation where it is mind numbingly boring and i ni longer want to look at the thread.
    well said
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    'brought up' does not equal 'argued' and/or 'justified' in my book, and certainly not in my experience of this forum.



    you just stated that different countries would have different demographics and now you suggest that the EU applies a single policy to adapt to the demographic of 25+ countries. this clarifies my point, "at least WE would have the ability to adapt economically to the demands of OUR demographic"
    Vienna i seriously hope you never make it to any position of any authority. you would make a terrible leader, completely unwilling to listen to the views of others and accept a comprimise to any extent. i bet conversation with you is great.
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    (Original post by Ellie4)
    You only think they're unjustfied because they're not your views, and which points exactly have been contradictory?
    i) "Apparantly we are heading in the direction of a united states of Europe type affair. It's basically a weak xenophobic argument"

    "There may well one day be a federal state"


    ii) "Exactly, with the EU we can stand up against the powers of the US etc, alone, we're nothign but a tiny little island floating in the Atlantic. We need the EU behind us to compete on an international scale.
    "Maybe if we were closer to the EU and further away from the US, we wouldn't have got so involved."

    "I said nothing about the EU giving us more political weight, mine was a purely economical argument."

    iii) "Geographically we're on the periphery, and yes we're not part of the single currency, but we can still have a major influence on policy formation in the EU. It's better to be in the EU and have some say, than pull out and have none...We may not agree with half the policies, but we do agree with the other half... as long as Britain can hve it's own policies on taxation, and our monetary and fiscal policy isn't interefered with"

    "and thus far there has been no loss of sovereignity, "

    iv)
    "Why try to pre-empt problems, you don't know in what direction the EU is going to go in the future, "

    "I'm not saying it's not heading in that direction,"

    v)
    "Yes, it is a large amount of money as a number alone, but compared to the proportion of America's wealth, it's negligable. The CAP is a ridiculous excuse for a scheme, but it was originally intended to help support poor farmers, the intentions were right, it just happened that we started propping up inefficient farmers and producing surplus food."

    "I personally don't think we're making many sacrifices to be in the EU at the moment,"

    vi)" I wouldn't have thought it shows the EU has no political power, I'd have thought that just shows America's stubborness "

    "Exactly, with the EU we can stand up against the powers of the US etc"
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    i just knew something like that was coming, bit like that tetleys advert ages ago with the storm brewing bit
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    (Original post by endorf)
    completely unwilling to listen to the views of others
    oh?

    and accept a comprimise to any extent.
    why is that more valuable to a debate forum?

    i bet conversation with you is great.
    try it.
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    Lol, you've taken many of those points out of context, not to mention the jumbled order. I don;t know what's going to happen in the EU in the future, hence why, if you read properly, most of those statements have the conditional in them, i.e. 'may'. You see, things that might happen, or might not. We are making sacrifices yes, we're not making that many sacrifices. It's all relative. You clearly haven't been reading what I've been saying properly. You'd make a great tabloid journalist vienna, but a world leader, I think not.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    why is that more valuable to a debate forum?
    This thread hasn't been moved to the debate forum yet.
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    (Original post by Ellie4)
    Yes but our demographic is similar to that of the EU average, countries like Italy etc have higher dependency ratios, other Eastern europena countries have younger demographics. Working on the assumption the EU would form a policy on the average, this would be similar to what we would enforce anyway.
    thats not at all the case. the demographics of each country vary and are not negligible as you have stated. this would already mean that a one-size-fits-all policy would be at the detriment to each state in comparison to a policy applied on a national level. secondly, a policy to contain the consequences of a shifting demographic are also bound by the nature of each states economy, its markets, labour migration and immigration levels.
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    (Original post by Zapsta)
    This thread hasn't been moved to the debate forum yet.
    hehe, a detail!
 
 
 
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