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    (Original post by KomradeKorbyn)
    What i was saying was that it's not correct to say "left wing = high gov control and low personal freedom, right wing = low gov control and high personal freedom" because that's not there case, as anarchism is left yet has no gov control and complete personal freedom, whilst the nazis were right but had the opposite.

    And yes, the Nazis called themselves socialists, but they were very much extreme right, and were socialist in the sense that modern China is, ie not.

    This illustrates what I'm describing:
    http://rationalwiki.org/w/images/thu...px-Compass.png
    It's possible to be far left and libertarian (anarchist), far left and authoritarian (communist), far right and libertarian (libertarian), or far right and authoritarian (faschists, nazis, etc).
    Hitler was merely an unorthodox socialist. He believed that the problems of his predecessors were simply tactical, not philosophical.
    I'll give you some quotes:
    [My task is to] “convert the German volk (people) to socialism without simply killing off the old individualists”We must “find and travel the road from individualism to socialism without revolution”."We recognise that separating humanity from nature, from the whole of life, leads to humankind's own destruction and to the death of nations. "Only through a re-integration of humanity into the whole of nature can our people be made stronger . .

    "This striving toward connectedness with the totality of life, with nature itself, a nature into which we are born, this is the deepest meaning and the true essence of National Socialist thought."

    “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions” 1927
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    (Original post by balanced)
    Hitler was merely an unorthodox socialist. He believed that the problems of his predecessors were simply tactical, not philosophical.
    I'll give you some quotes:
    [My task is to] “convert the German volk (people) to socialism without simply killing off the old individualists”We must “find and travel the road from individualism to socialism without revolution”."We recognise that separating humanity from nature, from the whole of life, leads to humankind's own destruction and to the death of nations. "Only through a re-integration of humanity into the whole of nature can our people be made stronger . .

    "This striving toward connectedness with the totality of life, with nature itself, a nature into which we are born, this is the deepest meaning and the true essence of National Socialist thought."

    “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions” 1927
    I'm not doubting that Hitler himself had socialist ideologies, I'm saying that in practice the government created by the Nazis was very much not socialism, nor was it left wing.
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    Communism as a philosophy of a what society should look like is libertarian. The authoritarianism comes when communists seize control of a state and try and force march society to a communist end goal or try and defend revolutionary potential in society from external or internal counter revolutionary forces.

    There are also libertarian communist ideologies that take a libertarian approach on how to get to the end goal of communism.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchist_communism

    CNT industrial anarcho-syndicalist unions and peasant communes in the Spanish Civil War and Ukrainian Free Territory in Russia during the Russian Revolution are examples of libertarian communist movements.

    I'm talking about realistic governance, not pie in the sky ideas that aren't realistic and since the only examples we have right now of social far left socialism and communism is authoritarian.
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    (Original post by KomradeKorbyn)
    I'm not doubting that Hitler himself had socialist ideologies, I'm saying that in practice the government created by the Nazis was very much not socialism, nor was it left wing.
    lel your joking right? NAZI Germany had many socialist collectivist policies from unemployed forced labour to large social programs and infrastructure ideas
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    (Original post by TheNote)
    I'm talking about realistic governance, not pie in the sky ideas that aren't realistic and since the only examples we have right now of social far left socialism and communism is authoritarian.
    Well there isn't a governance in communism :hmmm:

    You looked like you were talking about political philosophy and there are examples of real existing libertarian communist societies in history anyway. I gave you two big examples in my post. So you are still wrong even when talking about "realistic governance" since there has been realistic really existing libertarian communism.
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    (Original post by similarBlank)
    Is Liberalism exclusively left wing and is Conservatism exclusively right wing?
    liberalism isn't a measure on the economic spectrum. That is more an american usage, as in america they use 'liberal' and 'left-wing' interchangeably. liberalism is an ideology based upon liberty, with many branches, and composes ideals which cover the whole economic spectrum. You can have left-wing, right-wing and centrist liberals. For example, economic liberalism is typically right-wing.
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    (Original post by similarBlank)
    And what is the difference between left wing and far left?
    Left wing beliefs are usually progressive in nature, they look to the future, aim to support those who cannot support themselves, are idealist and believe in equality. People who are left wing believe in taxation to redistribute opportunity and wealth - things like a national health service, and job seeker’s allowance are fundamentally left wing ideas. They believe in equality over the freedom to fail'left wing parties are the Labour Party and the Green Party. They believe in making laws that protect women, ethnic minorities, and gay people against discrimination. They believe that we should tax rich people more to support people less well off, and they believe we should regulate big businesses so they serve people’s interests. They believe that a good welfare system means people are healthier, more able to work, and will put more back into the economy. They also typically believe country-wide tax-funded action on climate change is necessary.'

    Far-left politics or extreme-left politics are politics further on the left of the left-right spectrum than the standard political left. Far-left politics are generally the province of extra-governmental groups and those espousing them are typically opposed to their governments.
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    (Original post by TheNote)
    lel your joking right? NAZI Germany had many socialist collectivist policies from unemployed forced labour to large social programs and infrastructure ideas
    Obviously it had some socialist policies, just like modern day Sweden. That doesn't make it a socialist state.
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    What a stupid argument your having. In no way was Nazis ideology Left wing socialism./
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    (Original post by balanced)
    Hitler was merely an unorthodox socialist. He believed that the problems of his predecessors were simply tactical, not philosophical.
    I'll give you some quotes:
    [My task is to] “convert the German volk (people) to socialism without simply killing off the old individualists”We must “find and travel the road from individualism to socialism without revolution”."We recognise that separating humanity from nature, from the whole of life, leads to humankind's own destruction and to the death of nations. "Only through a re-integration of humanity into the whole of nature can our people be made stronger . .

    "This striving toward connectedness with the totality of life, with nature itself, a nature into which we are born, this is the deepest meaning and the true essence of National Socialist thought."

    “We are socialists, we are enemies of today’s capitalistic economic system for the exploitation of the economically weak, with its unfair salaries, with its unseemly evaluation of a human being according to wealth and property instead of responsibility and performance, and we are all determined to destroy this system under all conditions” 1927
    Hitler oversaw a huge amount of privatisation. He banned trade unions. The idea that he was left wing is a pure fabrication which is often aimed at tarring today's left.

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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Hitler oversaw a huge amount of privatisation. He banned trade unions. The idea that he was left wing is a pure fabrication which is often aimed at tarring today's left.

    Posted from TSR Mobile
    Hitler also said he wouldn't invade Poland....


    National Socialism was a fascistic/ totalitarian l party which had little in common with socialism/ conservatism although it took some ideas from both.

    Its also conveniently ignored that the ultra capitalist Pinochet dictatorship was responsible for state sanctioned genocide. Whilst I would argue that socialist and communist governments have probably killed more of their domestic populations a good chunk of this is the responsibility of 20th Century US foreign policy (NOT 21st) in places like Iran, Pakistan and Argentina- in which brutal capitalist dictatorships were seen as preferable to democratic socialist governments.
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    A good ideology.
 
 
 
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