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Socialists, if your plan to reform the EU fails, what happens then? watch

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    Socialists use the argument that they can rewrite everything and completely reform the EU, all for promoting the IN campaign.

    The EU has had 40 years to reform and has shown no effort to do so. Cameron practically begged and got nothing.

    Greece tried to change the tide as did Spain and Portugal but were forced back on route.

    Your socialist allies like that in France are trailing in 3rd place (99% likely to be beaten by the conservative equivalent), the conservative equivalents in Sweden have also made large gains. Latest affairs have undoubtedly pushed the EU into a right capitalist political wing.

    So how the **** do you socialists (of which I once identified as like the former Tony Benn) intend to change the EU. Why is Corbyn and Labour so special that they can convince all but a handful of socialist allies to change?

    The EU will move ahead with TTIP (which we only know about because it was leaked), and god knows what else they've agreed behind closed doors.

    If we leave, we will be with conservatives for a few years still but then have the chance to pick our own government, what reason is there to stay?
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    The idea that Boris and farage will be better for the left wing cause than the European Union is laughable.

    The Eu is not socialist but it's less right wing tag. The current government and far less so than the Tory right.

    I'm pretty happy with the Eu bar ttip. Ttip will still happen under Boris and farage
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    (Original post by Omen96)
    Socialists
    Who? Only socialists are only pro-European, is that what you're saying?

    use the argument that they can rewrite everything and completely reform the EU, all for promoting the IN campaign.
    Who has said that, precisely? It's not what I'd say.

    The EU has had 40 years to reform and has shown no effort to do so. Cameron practically begged and got nothing.
    Untrue, You've noticed the series of treaties that EU Member States have signed over the years? Or do you have a short memory?

    And what, precisely, did you expect Cameron to secure from his negotiation deal? It's a bloc of 28 Member States. Change takes time. For the record, I think what he did secure was significant for the UK, and useful for us.

    Greece tried to change the tide as did Spain and Portugal but were forced back on route.
    What are you talking about?

    Your socialist allies
    Who?

    like that in France are trailing in 3rd place (99% likely to be beaten by the conservative equivalent), the conservative equivalents in Sweden have also made large gains. Latest affairs have undoubtedly pushed the EU into a right capitalist political wing.
    ...so? Only left-wingers are pro-European, are you saying?

    So how the **** do you socialists
    ....who?

    (of which I once identified as like the former Tony Benn) intend to change the EU. Why is Corbyn and Labour so special that they can convince all but a handful of socialist allies to change?
    I don't give a fig what Corbyn says about the EU. As for reform, the fact is I am broadly broadly happy with how the EU functions, but I would wish it did it in a more efficient way and with greater responsiveness to local concerns. It has made progress over the years and can make greater strides still.

    The EU will move ahead with TTIP (which we only know about because it was leaked), and god knows what else they've agreed behind closed doors.
    a) Treaties in general, all over the world, tend to be negotiated in private and people only get to see the final text. TTIP is nothing unique in that regard.

    b) If you think a non-EU UK would opt out of TTIP, you're off your onion.

    If we leave, we will be with conservatives for a few years still but then have the chance to pick our own government
    We can already pick our own government.

    what reason is there to stay?
    Economic ties, unity of the West, mutual security, interest of our allies, promoting human rights, enhanced influence.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    The idea that Boris and farage will be better for the left wing cause than the European Union is laughable.

    The Eu is not socialist but it's less right wing tag. The current government and far less so than the Tory right.

    I'm pretty happy with the Eu bar ttip. Ttip will still happen under Boris and farage
    We wont have Boris and Farage. We are not electing them by voting leave lmao
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    We wont have Boris and Farage. We are not electing them by voting leave lmao
    A vote to leave near on guarantees that Boris will win Tory leadership.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    A vote to leave near on guarantees that Boris will win Tory leadership.
    The British electorate voting sufficently for the Tories with Boris in charge gives him Tory leadership. NOT VOTING LEAVE
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    The British electorate voting sufficently for the Tories with Boris in charge gives him Tory leadership. NOT VOTING LEAVE
    Stop being a pedant.
    If we vote to leave, cameron won't be regarded as having a mandate to lead eu exit negotitations and we'll end up with Boris as PM.

    If we vote to stay we're much more likely to have a pro-eu leader.
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    (Original post by Bornblue)
    Stop being a pedant.
    If we vote to leave, cameron won't be regarded as having a mandate to lead eu exit negotitations and we'll end up with Boris as PM.

    If we vote to stay we're much more likely to have a pro-eu leader.
    Ok so we will have Osbourne if we vote stay. Left wingers rejoice
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Ok so we will have Osbourne if we vote stay. Left wingers rejoice
    Osborne is a lot more beatable than Johnson. Osborne has far lower personal ratings than even Corbyn does.
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    (Original post by Omen96)
    Socialists use the argument that they can rewrite everything and completely reform the EU, all for promoting the IN campaign.

    The EU has had 40 years to reform and has shown no effort to do so. Cameron practically begged and got nothing.

    Greece tried to change the tide as did Spain and Portugal but were forced back on route.

    Your socialist allies like that in France are trailing in 3rd place (99% likely to be beaten by the conservative equivalent), the conservative equivalents in Sweden have also made large gains. Latest affairs have undoubtedly pushed the EU into a right capitalist political wing.

    So how the **** do you socialists (of which I once identified as like the former Tony Benn) intend to change the EU. Why is Corbyn and Labour so special that they can convince all but a handful of socialist allies to change?

    The EU will move ahead with TTIP (which we only know about because it was leaked), and god knows what else they've agreed behind closed doors.

    If we leave, we will be with conservatives for a few years still but then have the chance to pick our own government, what reason is there to stay?
    You've got a ridiculous notion that somehow only socialists are for IN.
    Before this the majority of left-wingers wanted OUT, and many still do. The Tories are also split over the EU, although significantly more so than Labour who are taking an "anti-right wing = pro-EU" stance and still mainly moderate leftists.
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    OP joined this forum this month, with 0 friends or badges. And hasn't replied. So a troll, obviously.
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    (Original post by Omen96)
    Socialists use the argument that they can rewrite everything and completely reform the EU, all for promoting the IN campaign.
    When you talk about socialists in this context do you mean like David Cameron and George Osborne? Why is being a socialist such a bad thing? It is thanks to socialist ideas that we have things like the NHS, and public education system, roads and infrastructure and the armed forces. Yet you talk about it like it is some sort of pariah.

    You only have to look at the disaster that befell the railways in Victorian times to understand why unregulated pure capitalism doesn't work.
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    (Original post by gladders)
    OP joined this forum this month, with 0 friends or badges. And hasn't replied. So a troll, obviously.

    no, probably just someone who has a life
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    (Original post by james813)
    no, probably just someone who has a life
    Devastating. I'm voting LEAVE now.
 
 
 
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