The EU protects our interests more than our own government

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username1204031
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#1
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#1
Leave voters are constantly whining about the EU being "undemocratic" and how we "shouldn't be ruled by people that don't represent our interests".

The EU gives us most of our consumer rights, workers' rights and human rights. Is anyone naive enough to believe that a Tory government would uphold those rights if they had the choice not to? They're already trying to repeal our Human Rights Act, and they'd jump at the chance to strip away more of our rights, so we'd work harder and bring them more money. The EU is the only thing stopping this, and most of the Leave voters would be the first to start crying if they lost their rights.

The EU funds regions of the UK that the government refuses to. The European Regional Development Fund invests in projects across the country, aiming to balance regional inequality. The government is leaving half of this country to rot, while the EU is investing in business, science, environment and culture projects in the areas that need it most.

The EU funds climate change research, protection and prevention, and introduces legislation aiming to prevent a potentially catastrophic environmental disaster (even though we're probably past the point where it can be prevented), while our own government is cutting spending on renewables and investing in new, more dangerous ways of extracting fossil fuels.

The Leave voters don't realize that they're living in poverty because of their own government and that the EU red tape they keep *****ing about is the red tape protecting their rights as workers, because most of these people know *******s all about the EU, they just read in The Sun that it's the cause of literally every problem in their lives.

I'd feel much safer in the hands of the EU than the government that the idiots of the British electorate vote into power.
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MagicNMedicine
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#2
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#2
(Original post by JordanL_)
The EU gives us most of our consumer rights, workers' rights and human rights. Is anyone naive enough to believe that a Tory government would uphold those rights if they had the choice not to?
This is a myth.

There's no minimum wage in EU law, that was brought in by a UK government and the Conservatives have actually raised the minimum wage.

Also the Working Time Directive guarantees 20 days annual leave, the UK government guarantees 28 days. Why haven't the Conservatives at least reduced it down to 20?

If they tried to do something that the electorate didn't want, they would get voted out.
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JamesN88
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#3
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#3
(Original post by JordanL_)
they just read in The Sun that it's the cause of literally every problem in their lives.
I'm too smart for the Sun.
Spoiler:
Show
I read the Mail instead.
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999tigger
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#4
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#4
1. If the EU didnt legislate then we would have to. It makes sense to have common levels of worker and consumer rights but I do believe if they werent made in Europe then they would be made in the UK.

2. The money we pay to the EU would be spent back in the UK, but we cnat guarantee if it would be spent on other areas as the UK seems very London centric these days and the north tends to trail behind. They would still have a further 8 nillion or so to decide how to spend, although the exiters seem to be spending it several times over. Defence, the NHS etc.

Cant say I see the EU as some sort of benevolent organisation.
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MrsSheldonCooper
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#5
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#5
You forgot the bit about criminals not being able to be deported because of EU law as well dude.
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username1204031
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#6
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#6
(Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
You forgot the bit about criminals not being able to be deported because of EU law as well dude.
Yep, just ignore everything good that the EU does and repeat over and over that we are unable to deport a tiny handful of criminals. The EU is really destroying this country, clearly.
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MrsSheldonCooper
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#7
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#7
(Original post by JordanL_)
Yep, just ignore everything good that the EU does and repeat over and over that we are unable to deport a tiny handful of criminals. The EU is really destroying this country, clearly.
Yeah I mean like Einstein TOTALLY did his research with the help of the EU and the uncontrolled immigration isn't a bad thing at all.
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JamesN88
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#8
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#8
(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
This is a myth.

There's no minimum wage in EU law, that was brought in by a UK government and the Conservatives have actually raised the minimum wage.

Also the Working Time Directive guarantees 20 days annual leave, the UK government guarantees 28 days. Why haven't the Conservatives at least reduced it down to 20?

If they tried to do something that the electorate didn't want, they would get voted out.
It's 20 days statutory plus 8 bank holidays, there'd likely be riots in the street if they tried to abolish the latter.
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username1204031
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#9
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#9
(Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
Yeah I mean like Einstein TOTALLY did his research with the help of the EU and the uncontrolled immigration isn't a bad thing at all.
Again, you're handwaving away everything good and complaining about immigration (despite the fact that EU immigration brings huge amounts of money into the country). You only hear what you want to hear and ignore everything else. That's not a sign of good decision-making.
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MrsSheldonCooper
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#10
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#10
(Original post by JordanL_)
Again, you're handwaving away everything good and complaining about immigration (despite the fact that EU immigration brings huge amounts of money into the country). You only hear what you want to hear and ignore everything else. That's not a sign of good decision-making.
Let's say for argument's sake, that we do stay in. There are currently 7 other countries wanting to join in the EU (if memory serves me right). One of them has the lowest employment rate in Europe. What would happen if a massive amount of those people decide to come over here? It would be a massive stretch in resources. The NHS and other services in the UK are already on its knees as it is.


And the government doesn't give a damn. He's too attached to Merkel's bra straps (she's the woman whose destroyed Europe btw)
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troubadour.
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#11
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#11
As far as arguments to stay go, this is one of the worst. The idea that a question of this magnitude should be treated as a referendum on our confidence in a government that can be replaced in four years' time (and even less by the time we actually leave, if indeed the Leave side wins) is no less absurd than many of the things that UKIP comes out with.
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username1204031
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#12
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#12
(Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
Let's say for argument's sake, that we do stay in. There are currently 7 other countries wanting to join in the EU (if memory serves me right). One of them has the lowest employment rate in Europe. What would happen if a massive amount of those people decide to come over here? It would be a massive stretch in resources. The NHS and other services in the UK are already on its knees as it is.


And the government doesn't give a damn. He's too attached to Merkel's bra straps (she's the woman whose destroyed Europe btw)
Yeah, services in the UK are struggling because funding is being cut and cut and cut. That problem is going to get worse regardless of immigration because people voted for a government that cuts spending and cuts taxes. If you want the NHS to do better, you'd find far more success by voting for a better government, rather than voting to kick out immigrants that bring in money and alienate ourselves from our biggest export market in the process.

(Original post by Hydeman)
As far as arguments to stay go, this is one of the worst. The idea that a question of this magnitude should be treated as a referendum on our confidence in a government that can be replaced in four years' time (and even less by the time we actually leave, if indeed the Leave side wins) is no less absurd than many of the things that UKIP comes out with.
No, it's not absurd at all. The EU holds our government accountable. A bad government, as we're seeing right now, can do huge amounts of damage in a single term. It takes decades to develop new rights, and a single election to abolish them. 5 years of extracting more fossil fuels and reducing our climate change prevention will have catastrophic and IRREPARABLE consequences economically and environmentally.
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MrsSheldonCooper
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#13
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#13
(Original post by JordanL_)
Yeah, services in the UK are struggling because funding is being cut and cut and cut. That problem is going to get worse regardless of immigration because people voted for a government that cuts spending and cuts taxes. If you want the NHS to do better, you'd find far more success by voting for a better government, rather than voting to kick out immigrants that bring in money and alienate ourselves from our biggest export market in the process.
.
Staying in the EU would mean a bigger risk of health tourism. There have been plenty of reports of EU citizens coming to the UK and using the NHS because it's free.
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JamesN88
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#14
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#14
(Original post by 999tigger)
1. If the EU didnt legislate then we would have to. It makes sense to have common levels of worker and consumer rights but I do believe if they werent made in Europe then they would be made in the UK.

2. The money we pay to the EU would be spent back in the UK, but we cnat guarantee if it would be spent on other areas as the UK seems very London centric these days and the north tends to trail behind. They would still have a further 8 nillion or so to decide how to spend, although the exiters seem to be spending it several times over. Defence, the NHS etc.

Cant say I see the EU as some sort of benevolent organisation.
I might be being a bit cynical here due to my dislike of the Tory party, but I wouldn't be surprised that if in the event of a Brexit any money saved goes on further tax cuts for millionaires and it has no benefit for normal people at all.
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username1204031
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#15
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#15
(Original post by MrsSheldonCooper)
Staying in the EU would mean a bigger risk of health tourism. There have been plenty of reports of EU citizens coming to the UK and using the NHS because it's free.
Sorry, what? When an EU citizen receives free healthcare on the NHS, their government pays for that healthcare.
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999tigger
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#16
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#16
(Original post by JamesN88)
I might be being a bit cynical here due to my dislike of the Tory party, but I wouldn't be surprised that if in the event of a Brexit any money saved goes on further tax cuts for millionaires and it has no benefit for normal people at all.
The net amount is £8.5 billion, about £23.5m a day about 60% of what we spend on Foreign Aid. Its not that much imo compared to trade savings. I agree i wouldnt hold my breath on the givernment spending that or the other 5 billion on deprived areas.
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MrsSheldonCooper
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#17
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#17
(Original post by JordanL_)
Sorry, what? When an EU citizen receives free healthcare on the NHS, their government pays for that healthcare.
Well why are we so doomed if we leave?
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BigDazW
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#18
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#18
The EU only benefits countries with high levels of exports- I would rather leave, even if it makes us worse off to cut the amount Of immigration, if they they try to tell you that trade deals can not happen. Then what is the EEA and the WTO many countries deal with them id rather worse off economically then have hundred thousand immigrants come in every 4 months
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JamesN88
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#19
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#19
(Original post by BigDazW)
The EU only benefits countries with high levels of exports- I would rather leave, even if it makes us worse off to cut the amount Of immigration, if they they try to tell you that trade deals can not happen. Then what is the EEA and the WTO many countries deal with them id rather worse off economically then have hundred thousand immigrants come in every 4 months
EEA countries still have free movement as part of the single market. Being a services economy we're going to need access to the single market regardless of what happens, free movement is part and parcel of it.
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BigDazW
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#20
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#20
(Original post by JamesN88)
EEA countries still have free movement.
Well Iceland dont seem to have many of the *******s
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