What happened to women&#x27;s rights in the muslim world?

I consider the veil a visible insignia of servitude & debasement of the women of Islam. A chadored woman has nothing to be ashamed off. She should proudly & contentedly look in the mirror and smile at her reflection. Her eyes, sensuous lips and graceful hair are intrinsic gems. Regrettably, any society warped around the Abrahamic religion infuses primitive sacrifice theory, shame & self-hatred. Consider why nuns also cover themselves from Corinthians:

"But any woman who prays and prophecies with her head unveiled dishonors her head - it is the same as if her head were shaven, for if a woman will not veil herself then she should cut off her hair."

The veil derives from an age in which women were treated as property for the gratification of men and child rearing. There is much obsession with vaginal purity, a wife's theological inability to refuse sex, wife beating (subject to the appropriate rod thickness as mandated by the Hadith, I believe). One also doesn't dodge the fact that Mohammed took a little girl as his wife. It's unnerving to see literate and cultured people twist & dislocate themselves trying to defend that abhorrent practice. (It reminds me of Nabokov's nymphetic Humbert Humbert. I instantly think of Mohammed.) Islam reduces women to the level of household furniture. Men of Islam don't wear the veil. This luxury is enforced on its womenfolk.

Ultimately, I object to the subtle & delitescent essence the veil seeks to convey. Anyone with a scintilla of moral acuity would join me (unless, of course, religion has been welded to you to become a veritable bodily appendage).

Reply 322

TheArtofProtest

2

Original post by Pythian

Irony is the interstice between the literal, and its more subtle, subterranean & paradoxical layer of meanings. The Importance of Being Earnest is a masterpiece of irony.

Your engaging in mere conversation; and being able to project one's ideas/passions/perceptions are the building-blocks of any culture.

But making sure the spelling and grammar, in an effort for your opinion to sound comprehensible and hopefully, intelligible, is perhaps the first block that one should lay?

Reply 323

Pythian

Original post by TheArtofProtest

But making sure the spelling and grammar, in an effort for your opinion to sound comprehensible and hopefully, intelligible, is perhaps the first block that one should lay?

I am grateful for reminding me to slow down as I type.

I believe it was Oscar Wilde who once returned a manuscript to his publisher with the addendum: "I leave the full-stops, commas, exclamation marks, and the like to you ..." (paraphrasing of course)

In that spirit, I happily concede the apostrophe (full-stops, comma, and various other pedantry & sophistry) to you; while consigning the "intelligible" & "comprehensible" heft of my post to those with a more vigorous mind.

Good day.

Reply 324

TheArtofProtest

2

Original post by Pythian

I am grateful for reminding me to slow down as I type.

I believe it was Oscar Wilde who once returned a manuscript to his publisher with the addendum: "I leave the full-stops, commas, exclamation marks, and the like to you ..." (paraphrasing of course)

In that spirit, I happily concede the apostrophe (full-stops, comma, and various other pedantry & sophistry) to you; while consigning the "intelligible" & "comprehensible" heft of my post to those with a more vigorous mind.

Good day.

Perhaps the publisher was the one that actually made Oscar Wilde's work intelligible and comprehensible?

Oscar Wilde may have been but a footnote in the pages of history if his publisher had not been of an obliging nature. :holmes:

Reply 325

Original post by Khaar

Wearing the niqab isn't extreme. It is Islam. The wives of the prophet (pbuh) wore it.

How is covering every inch of your skin and only showing your eyes not extreme? Of course it's extreme and implies women's bodies are nothing but sexual chunks of meat that have to be hidden from view.

Reply 326

Original post by Khaar

You have a major inferiority complex. Calling yourself a Muslim, whilst looking down on your own God's laws just so you can pretend to be 'advanced'.

Would you mind providing scriptural evidence from the Qur'an, (not the hadith because it's only the Qur'an that is supposed to be God's direct words) which unambiguously and unequivocally states that a women should cover her hair, and in the case of the niqab, everything except her eyes?

Reply 327

username1788167

11

Original post by Plantagenet Crown

How is covering every inch of your skin and only showing your eyes not extreme? Of course it's extreme and implies women's bodies are nothing but sexual chunks of meat that have to be hidden from view.

Lol. Actually it's the opposite. Showing every inch of your skin in order to appeal to men implies women's bodies are nothing but "sexual chunks of meat" that have to be exposed every opportunity they get. TV adverts aimed at men featuring half-naked women, magazines made especially for men featuring naked to half-naked women, etc. How can you say covering up sexualises women? That's hilarious. It's the opposite that achieves that and it's disgusting, and you can see to what a large extent it's been taken when people like you being to find it normal.

Reply 328

Original post by RegrettingAS

Men are designed to work long rough hours, as opposed to women.

Evidence for this?

Reply 329

Original post by yasminkattan

Lol. Actually it's the opposite. Showing every inch of your skin in order to appeal to men implies women's bodies are nothing but "sexual chunks of meat" that have to be exposed every opportunity they get. TV adverts aimed at men featuring half-naked women, magazines made especially for men featuring naked to half-naked women, etc. How can you say covering up sexualises women? That's hilarious. It's the opposite that achieves that and it's disgusting, and you can see to what a large extent it's been taken when people like you being to find it normal.

Don't start with the ridiculous clichés. Anyone who lives in the West will know that the overwhelming majority of women don't go round half naked showing cleavage and knickers. This is just the absurd narrative that "all Westerners are whores who do drugs and drink all day". Any Westerner can see that that is not true.

And you're missing the fundamental point that in the West women have the choice to dress like that and cover up if they want to. In many Islamic countries there is no choice for women to stop wearing hijab etc.

Of course being forced to cover up sexualises women, why do you think they're being forced to cover up in the first place, to protect them from UV rays?!

(edited 8 years ago)

Reply 330

username1595471

13

Original post by Khaar

Wearing the niqab isn't extreme. It is Islam. The wives of the prophet (pbuh) wore it.

Yeah and? So a bunch of women in the desert 1400 years ago wore a silly costume, and that means that women nowadays have to wear it too? Is that supposed to be an argument? Muhammad's wives went out into a field to relieve themselves, do you do that too? Do you eat like them, travel like them, live like them in any other way? No? Then why dress like them?

Reply 331

username1595471

13

Original post by yasminkattan

Lol. Actually it's the opposite. Showing every inch of your skin in order to appeal to men implies women's bodies are nothing but "sexual chunks of meat" that have to be exposed every opportunity they get. TV adverts aimed at men featuring half-naked women, magazines made especially for men featuring naked to half-naked women, etc. How can you say covering up sexualises women? That's hilarious. It's the opposite that achieves that and it's disgusting, and you can see to what a large extent it's been taken when people like you being to find it normal.

The disgust in your post for people who choose to dress in another way to you, and your sense of moral superiority over them, is palpable. Tell me, given that it's pretty cold and wet in the UK at the moment, are you seeing lots of women out on the street swanning around half-naked in their underwear or bikinis? Are all the women you see in your daily life 'exposing themselves every opportunity they get' and 'showing every chunk of skin'? I bet they aren't. I bet they're wearing coats and thick clothes. But hey, don't let that get in the way of your judgememtal sneering. And yes, Muslim women being ordered to cover every inch is sexualising them, because it's saying that women's entire bodies are an erogenous zone, and if they expose even a tiny little bit of flesh, they will arouse men's lusts. Nasty stuff.

Reply 332

Pythian

Original post by yasminkattan

Lol. Actually it's the opposite. Showing every inch of your skin in order to appeal to men implies women's bodies are nothing but "sexual chunks of meat" that have to be exposed every opportunity they get.

Restricting myself to the italicised red sentence above:

1. Why do you assume that revealing skin is done to "appeal to men"?

2. Even if we assume the first, what's wrong with flaunting your body to appeal to men?

Reply 333

Josb

6

Original post by yasminkattan

Lol. Actually it's the opposite. Showing every inch of your skin in order to appeal to men implies women's bodies are nothing but "sexual chunks of meat" that have to be exposed every opportunity they get. TV adverts aimed at men featuring half-naked women, magazines made especially for men featuring naked to half-naked women, etc. How can you say covering up sexualises women? That's hilarious. It's the opposite that achieves that and it's disgusting, and you can see to what a large extent it's been taken when people like you being to find it normal.

Don't you think that completely hiding temptation (women) from men basically implies that Muslim men are incapable of controlling themselves, and thus are not very good Muslim?

Don't you think that burqas make men weaker as they are clueless about temptation, and therefore powerless when confronted to it?

A true Muslim should not need these attires to behave properly.

Reply 334

ph0t0n

2

To my knowledge in Islam it is recommended for men and women to cover in certain ways for the interest of society. You may say how society and the individual benefits from these recommendations and there are probably answers that you may receive that you wont agree with. For most Muslims it is done to please Allah and to follow the teachings of the Prophet Muhammad PBUH and that is enough so trying to argue otherwise with points focusing on "moral values" is irrelevant. Forcing people to adopt covering is another issue which to my knowledge is not allowed in Islam and people will be held accountable for on the Day of Judgement. Allah knows best.

Reply 335

troubadour.

19

Original post by ph0t0n

Forcing people to adopt covering is another issue which to my knowledge is not allowed in Islam and people will be held accountable for on the Day of Judgement. Allah knows best.

So is the implication that all of the Muslim-majority countries of today are following Islam incorrectly? And if so, do you think that a woman living in Medina while Muhammad (who presumably knew better than anyone what is or isn't allowed in Islam) was in charge could, if she felt like it, dress in a way that some Muslims on this thread have described as 'half-naked?'

Reply 336

The_Opinion

6

Original post by WBZ144

Also irrelevant, as I am not a presidential candidate and running a country is fundamentally different to running a company/companies.

So you think that someone can successfully run a multi-billion dollar company without being smart, being good at arranging deals and knowing how to build relationships?

Reply 337

teenhorrorstory

Original post by Cherry82

But there are Islamic countries such as Saudi Arabia that force women to dress this way as it's part of the country's law. Even me who is a Christian, I couldn't walk about in Saudi without wearing an abaya. Women, foreign and local, must wear an abaya in public places or they could face serious punishments such as receiving multiple lashes on the back.
Unless you're Michelle Obama (even she received backlash) there's no way in hell you have that decision in those countries i.e Saudi. I'm not saying all islamic countries are like this...Nigeria has become an Islamic state with it's current president but these laws are not enforced on it's citizens. There's no gender segregation where men and women are not allowed to sit together or even speak. If I didn't know people in Saudi, I would never go. I mean why would I? Being a woman in Saudi is difficult.

You have no idea what you're talking about

Reply 338

SwedenYes

3

Een sådan härlig förvandling! Om bara Sverige var så!

Translating: Such a lovely transformation! If only Sweden was so !

Reply 339

Cherry82