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Why do women do much better in very ''patriarchal'' countries? Watch

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    This is kind of a spin off of my other thread about women choosing low paid degrees, since some people brought up social influences and gender roles.

    I'm from a east-euro country where gender roles and ''patriarchy'' are far more ingrained in the culture compared to the UK . On top of that, women are even more ''sexualized'' than in the UK . It's a weird combo of religious/traditional and ''extra-liberated'' modern society: imagine a church right next to a newsstand selling porn mags with very ''explicit'' covers (none of that top shelf, covered up ''will someone think of the children'' nonsense). Basically feminist hell, all kinds of it, left and right . And speaking of feminism, I have literally never heard or seen the word anywhere. Ever.

    Yet women go into STEM degrees far more than (I looked up recent graduation photos from engineering courses and there are so many female graduates, in some of them you can barely see a few guys), they make up 75% of judges (25% in the UK), the majority of top end lawyers, notaries and many other highly paid/long hours/competitive jobs. Oh and the wage gap is far lower, almost inexistent in the private sector (whereas in the UK it's almost 25%). We're talking about a country where most people would never vote for a female president. You think rape victim blaming, slut shaming, fat shaming, ''pinkification'' and all that other stuff is bad in the UK? HA!! We're talking about a country where many still believe that ''a wife that hasn't been beaten is like a house that hasn't been vacuumed''. Nobody cares. Just the other day on the news they were saying how women were allowed to leave work earlier so they could cook for Easter and it was seen as a great thing. Imagine the reaction to that in the UK lmao.

    A few more details that are very relevant : welfare is basically inexistent, public health care is a ****ing disgrace (and that's on a good day) and divorce laws are quite different : the higher income spouse can claim a share according to what they've made over the years, anything inherited is untouchable (same goes for intellectual property, personal items etc...), there is no alimony, no future income/pensions claim and so on.

    Cliffs : Despite having far more many hurdles to overcome, women in less feminist/progressive societies do far better. Sweden looks like a medieval patriarchy compared to my country when you look at the outcomes. Equality (of outcomes aka the feminist version of it) will never be achieved through social engineering, treating women like quasi-children that need privileges, quotas and ''you can do it, gurrlll'' campaigns only increases the outcome gap (best observable in Sweden and the other nordic gender equal paradises). The exact opposite works far, far better.

    Bonus photo of the most prominent female politician :
    Spoiler:
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    Can a mod move this to the debate forums if nobody's interested in talking about it here? Thanks.
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    Alina Gorghiu?

    Historical factors play a big role role too. You can't generalise the results of your country to all.
    In general, patriarchal societies tend to have much worse outcomes for women. You would agree that Saudi Arabia, India Subcontinent, Sub-Saharan Africa, all worse off than Sweden.

    You need to control for a lot of factors when making these comparisons. I should know. That's my masters thesis.
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    I don't have any evidence for this but my guess is that they're more inclined to work harder to leave those countries. They sound like an awful place for women to be
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    (Original post by Erebor)
    This is kind of a spin off of my other thread about women choosing low paid degrees, since some people brought up social influences and gender roles.

    I'm from a east-euro country where gender roles and ''patriarchy'' are far more ingrained in the culture compared to the UK . On top of that, women are even more ''sexualized'' than in the UK . It's a weird combo of religious/traditional and ''extra-liberated'' modern society: imagine a church right next to a newsstand selling porn mags with very ''explicit'' covers (none of that top shelf, covered up ''will someone think of the children'' nonsense). Basically feminist hell, all kinds of it, left and right . And speaking of feminism, I have literally never heard or seen the word anywhere. Ever.

    Yet women go into STEM degrees far more than (I looked up recent graduation photos from engineering courses and there are so many female graduates, in some of them you can barely see a few guys), they make up 75% of judges (25% in the UK), the majority of top end lawyers, notaries and many other highly paid/long hours/competitive jobs. Oh and the wage gap is far lower, almost inexistent in the private sector (whereas in the UK it's almost 25%). We're talking about a country where most people would never vote for a female president. You think rape victim blaming, slut shaming, fat shaming, ''pinkification'' and all that other stuff is bad in the UK? HA!! We're talking about a country where many still believe that ''a wife that hasn't been beaten is like a house that hasn't been vacuumed''. Nobody cares. Just the other day on the news they were saying how women were allowed to leave work earlier so they could cook for Easter and it was seen as a great thing. Imagine the reaction to that in the UK lmao.

    A few more details that are very relevant : welfare is basically inexistent, public health care is a ****ing disgrace (and that's on a good day) and divorce laws are quite different : the higher income spouse can claim a share according to what they've made over the years, anything inherited is untouchable (same goes for intellectual property, personal items etc...), there is no alimony, no future income/pensions claim and so on.

    Cliffs : Despite having far more many hurdles to overcome, women in less feminist/progressive societies do far better. Sweden looks like a medieval patriarchy compared to my country when you look at the outcomes. Equality (of outcomes aka the feminist version of it) will never be achieved through social engineering, treating women like quasi-children that need privileges, quotas and ''you can do it, gurrlll'' campaigns only increases the outcome gap (best observable in Sweden and the other nordic gender equal paradises). The exact opposite works far, far better.

    Bonus photo of the most prominent female politician :
    Spoiler:
    Show

    These women probably knew the way women were being treated in your country isn't morally justifiable so they want prove everyone wrong by not beholding a traditional feminine role and pursing a 'masculine' job. The fact is that what you stated is what people in your country THINK women are like not what they actually are- so women can either go against what you say or actually listen to everyone else.

    Living in a patriarchal country makes you think more than a country that isn't patriarchal.
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    (Original post by CHEETS)
    Alina Gorghiu?

    Historical factors play a big role role too. You can't generalise the results of your country to all.
    In general, patriarchal societies tend to have much worse outcomes for women. You would agree that Saudi Arabia, India Subcontinent, Sub-Saharan Africa, all worse off than Sweden.

    You need to control for a lot of factors when making these comparisons. I should know. That's my masters thesis.
    Yeh, that's her.

    It's not generalizing, you can see similar outcomes around eastern europe. I am talking about countries where women have the exact same opportunities legally but the social factors should keep them ''down'', according to feminist theory. I am not talking about hell holes like the muslim countries. And even India does much better than Sweden in terms of engineers, scientists, banking & finance CEO's. The more choices women have (being able to choose ''feminine'' degrees/careers and earn enough from them, huge welfare state, biased divorce laws etc) the more ''feminine'' choices they will make, which goes completely against feminist theory which states gender ''progressiveness'' will lead to a perfect 50/50 outcome in everything.
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    (Original post by Defraction)
    These women probably knew the way women were being treated in your country isn't morally justifiable so they want prove everyone wrong by not beholding a traditional feminine role and pursing a 'masculine' job. The fact is that what you stated is what people in your country THINK women are like not what they actually are- so women can either go against what you say or actually listen to everyone else.

    Living in a patriarchal country makes you think more than a country that isn't patriarchal.

    The more choices women have (being able to choose ''feminine'' degrees/careers and earn enough from them, huge welfare state, biased divorce laws etc) the more ''feminine'' choices they will make, which goes completely against feminist theory which states gender ''progressiveness'' will lead to a perfect 50/50 outcome in everything.

    It's like that scene in ''Office space'', when you're not sure what you want to do ask yourself what would you do for a living if you had 1 million dollars? Women in the West are incredibly cocooned and have lifestyle/career choices/paths that most men can't ever dare dream of, so of course they'll choose whatever they like or the path of least resistance. That's how nature works.
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    (Original post by CHEETS)
    Alina Gorghiu?

    Historical factors play a big role role too. You can't generalise the results of your country to all.
    In general, patriarchal societies tend to have much worse outcomes for women. You would agree that Saudi Arabia, India Subcontinent, Sub-Saharan Africa, all worse off than Sweden.

    You need to control for a lot of factors when making these comparisons. I should know. That's my masters thesis.
    Saudia Arabia has the Shariah law, which I completely detest. The Shariah law subjects women into a lower status than men, and if women want to go against the men, he'll manipulate what she supposedly did to him as being haram. Come on, in Saudia Arabia, women can't drive. It's weird because men have a higher percentage of car crashes than women so this 'law' that women can't drive is stupid. If Saudia Arabia never had the Shariah law, I guess men and women would've been equal. But, I hate the fact the Saudis want to justify their mistreatment to females to religion- the Quran clearly states that men and women are equal so they are clearly ignorant.

    In the Indian subcontinent, they have very traditional norms and values about men and women. To be honest, Asians are more tight up about traditional and keeping the 'family name' than Europeans- so maybe this is why they are more patriarchal than East Europeans. Plus, the Indian subcontinent have a corrupt government so it makes sense why rape attacks on women don't get resolved. If the government wasn't so corrupt and the citizens ACTUALLY THINK, women and men would be equal.

    Sub-Saharan Africa have traditional norms and values too and their governments is very corrupt. I'm from a Sub-Saharan African country and my country is definitely corrupt. People don't recognise that women and men are equal- I have an Aunt who got married to some prick and she gave birth to twins- he left her and she didn't do anything. Men in these countries, just use for women for sex and leave them like trash when they want to.

    If all these countries ACTUALLY THINK and stand up for themselves rather than letting everyone walk on them, women and men would be equal. The difference between the East European country that was stated and these countries is that there is no freedom in those other countries, in a sense that women are more subjected to their feminine role than in the East European country stated above.(India subcontinent, Sub-Saharan Africa, Saudi Arabia).
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    (Original post by Erebor)
    The more choices women have (being able to choose ''feminine'' degrees/careers and earn enough from them, huge welfare state, biased divorce laws etc) the more ''feminine'' choices they will make, which goes completely against feminist theory which states gender ''progressiveness'' will lead to a perfect 50/50 outcome in everything.

    It's like that scene in ''Office space'', when you're not sure what you want to do ask yourself what would you do for a living if you had 1 million dollars? Women in the West are incredibly cocooned and have lifestyle/career choices/paths that most men can't ever dare dream of, so of course they'll choose whatever they like or the path of least resistance. That's how nature works.
    That's true. As opposed to living in a strict country like Saudi Arabia, there is a limited choice for women there. It's not down on whether or not the country is patriarchal but the choices available for women clearly identify that.
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    (Original post by Defraction)
    That's true. As opposed to living in a strict country like Saudi Arabia, there is a limited choice for women there. It's not down on whether or not the country is patriarchal but the choices available for women clearly identify that.
    That's what I mean and the reason i said ''patriarchal''. The strong social ''rules'' in my country should be impairing women from making the choices I mentioned, since according to feminist theory legal equal opportunities are far from enough to create a ''gender equal society''. But they don't. Like I said, I have never heard or seen the word ''feminism'' here ever. They do it because they don't have a welfare/well paid feminine job/divorce laws safety net like Western women. Women shouldn't be treated like ''special flowers'' that need constant cocooning by society or SJW's, all they need is equal opportunity and a world where they don't have an infinity of safety nets. But I doubt most women want that kind of equality. This is also very obvious in dating/relationships where most women (while declaring their fierce independence and craving for equality) still expect men to live up to their traditional gender role (initiator, provider, protector etc).
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    (Original post by Erebor)
    That's what I mean and the reason i said ''patriarchal''. The strong social ''rules'' in my country should be impairing women from making the choices I mentioned, since according to feminist theory legal equal opportunities are far from enough to create a ''gender equal society''. But they don't. Like I said, I have never heard or seen the word ''feminism'' here ever. They do it because they don't have a welfare/well paid feminine job/divorce laws safety net like Western women. Women shouldn't be treated like ''special flowers'' that need constant cocooning by society or SJW's, all they need is equal opportunity and a world where they don't have an infinity of safety nets. But I doubt most women want that kind of equality. This is also very obvious in dating/relationships where most women (while declaring their fierce independence and craving for equality) still expect men to live up to their traditional gender role (initiator, provider, protector etc).
    Because women have a smaller salary compared to men. Did you know women have a PhD get the same salary as a men who have a BA. Plus, some females don't want to have a job as they want to raise a family. If a woman gets a job, it's more likely to be part-time than full-time. But, men generally have a full-time job so that's why women depend on them. They obviously feel the independence when they have a job but it's a loss that the pay difference is huge. More women should work full-time like men then we wouldn't depend on men.
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    (Original post by Defraction)
    Because women have a smaller salary compared to men. Did you know women have a PhD get the same salary as a men who have a BA. Plus, some females don't want to have a job as they want to raise a family. If a woman gets a job, it's more likely to be part-time than full-time. But, men generally have a full-time job so that's why women depend on them. They obviously feel the independence when they have a job but it's a loss that the pay difference is huge. More women should work full-time like men then we wouldn't depend on men.
    Women earn less because of many reasons. In the example of my country, the ''gender pay gap'' is less than half of the UK's and the private sector gap is a mere few percent (even though it should be much higher, according to fem theory.. it's almost 25% in the UK).

    My country also has one of the worst population replacement rates in the world : 1.33. That means we will be extinct in about 200 years or so. This is what happens when women have equal opportunities but no safety nets, they basically function as men : ethnic suicide. So progressive...
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    It's related to what you said at the start. More 'male-dominated' subjects like STEM tend to pay better than typically 'female-dominated' ones. Now, if you live in Western Europe where we have benefits and social welfare and an effective health service and all these other great things, people are more free to do what they want to, rather than what they have to. And so we see more women entering 'typically female' professions and more men entering 'typically male' professions. But if you live in a less developed country without all these social safety nets, suddenly there's a requirement to make your choices on more objective grounds. It's less about what you want to do, and more about what gives you the best life prospects.

    There was a really interesting documentary about this in Norway (I think it was Norway, one of the Scandiwegian countries anyway). It had recently been declared the most gender equal country, and yet they still saw this huge gender divide where professions were concerned. In this documentary they quoted a study across 50-odd countries, which showed that as a country became more equal, women were less likely to pursue these 'male-dominated' fields. Indeed, this caused quite a stir in Norway, because it suggests that there are some intrinsic differences between men and women which go beyond purely physical characteristics; this was considered anathema to the leftist powers-that-be in Norway.

    If you're interested in the gender divide across professions, I recommend watching the documentary; it's really really insightful, especially the last 10 minutes or so:

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    (Original post by Erebor)
    Equality (of outcomes aka the feminist version of it) will never be achieved through social engineering, treating women like quasi-children that need privileges, quotas
    Smashed it. Cultured neomasculinism ftw :borat:
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    (Original post by Luke Kostanjsek)

    There was a really interesting documentary about this in Norway (I think it was Norway, one of the Scandiwegian countries anyway).
    Yes it was Norway, I've seen all of them (they include gender, race, cultural differences). One of the best series I've ever seen.

    Imagine a BBC doc that suggests average IQ is related to race.

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    (Original post by Erebor)
    Imagine a BBC doc that suggests average IQ is related to race
    Careful what you wish for, famalam :girl:
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    (Original post by CHEETS)
    Alina Gorghiu?

    Historical factors play a big role role too. You can't generalise the results of your country to all.
    In general, patriarchal societies tend to have much worse outcomes for women. You would agree that Saudi Arabia, India Subcontinent, Sub-Saharan Africa, all worse off than Sweden.

    You need to control for a lot of factors when making these comparisons. I should know. That's my masters thesis.
    Men in Sweden are emasculated af
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    (Original post by Foo.mp3)
    Careful what you wish for, famalam :girl:
    Lol Flynn is a white apologist cuck afaik.

    Anyway, I remember that study. Women didn't actually score higher :

    In July 2012, several media outlets reported Flynn as claiming that women had, for the first time in a century, surpassed men on IQ tests based on a study he conducted in 2010.[22][23] However, Flynn announced that the media had seriously distorted his results and went beyond his claims, revealing that he had instead discovered that the differences between men and women on one particular test, the Raven's Progressive Matrices, had become minimal in five modernised nations (whereas before 1982 women had scored significantly lower). Women, he argued, caught up to men in these nations as a result of exposure to modernity by entering the professions and being allowed greater educational access.
    But notice how ''excited'' the media was to report ''OMGZZZ wiminnz is actuary smarter than teh menzzz, never in doubt!!!111''. If this was the other way around.... what's more disturbing is that the ''right wing'' media (like The Telegraph) was no exception, even though they're supposed to hate women and other ''minorities''. So much for white man's patriarchy...

    As for intelligence, men and women are pretty similar on average but the huge difference is at both high and low end where men are far more common. I guess it's why men still invent, innovate and create pretty much everything even in 2016.
 
 
 
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