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Prestige: undergraduate versus postgraduate degrees

I applied to Oxford for PPE. Got rejected. Instead I now have an offer to study Economics at LSE (undergraduate degree).

Now I want to know that if I plan to do a masters at Oxford or Cambridge later, will that Oxford/Cambridge postgraduate degree be seen to be as prestigious as an Oxford/Cambridge undergradute degree? Say an MPhil or similar. Perhaps even a DPhil.

I know it is quite early to think about masters but one has to plan, not least because I am an international student. I am asking in terms of leaving all other things (such as the academic factors) aside, in just 'the Oxbridge tag' terms.

Thank you.

Reply 1

not1

15

LSE is top-notch. Get a 1st and you've got an excellent chance of postgrad entry to Oxbridge.

Reply 2

the_alba

12

It depends on the postgraduate course. Some are not difficult to get onto, while others are even more competitive than undergrad degrees. In my subject, a DPhil from Oxford doesn't hold any more weight than one from any other half-decent university, because it's your research - if you write a mediocre DPhil at Oxford you'd struggle to get an academic job afterwards, just like anyone else.

Don't think about Oxford just for its 'prestige' though - it's naive and sort of unhealthy. Prestige does not necessarily mean excellence, and it may or may not be the right place for what you want to do three years from now.

Reply 3

K123

OP

I am aware that LSE is quite good. Moreover I also realise that Oxbridge education just for 'prestige' is a bit daft. But generally speaking, I perhaps gather (especially from what the_alba says) that an undergraduate degree is more prestigious.

Moreover, the thing is I spent my two years doing A-levels despite completing my education in India (class12th) getting 90% avarage marks (no easy stuff). I rejected Warwick in order to try Oxford and LSE.

Reply 4

gooseymcgoose

11

do you want to be an academic?

Reply 5

Elements

13

gooseymcgoose

do you want to be an academic?

I want to be an academic! What were you going to say then? :p:

Reply 6

shady lane

16

Honestly...if you want to be an academic, you'd know that at the postgraduate level, most economists consider LSE to be better than Oxbridge anyway.

Focus on your BSc and see how you feel in three years.

Reply 7

K123

OP

I do not want to be an academic. Nevertheless, I enjoy Economics and have a serious interest in Politics (hence I applied for PPE). Therefore I am disappointed that I would not be able to benefit from Oxford small-group tutorial system.
Thus there are three reasons for my Oxford postgraduate decision. First, I like to think that it would compensate for my lack of experience of the one-to-one tutorial system study (tell me if I am wrong). Secondly, I want to do something in Politics/International Relations - due to interest and perhaps a career option. Lastly, again, the 'Oxford tag'.

I am aware the in postgraduate studies LSE is more reputed than Oxford (for Economics). But my main dilemma is that will an Oxford postgraduate degree give me the same 'prestige' (I do not like to use the word again and again, lol) as an Oxford undergraduate degree holder. In short does a postgrad degree have the same status as an undergrad?

Reply 8

$Avatar for sTe\/o$

sTe\/o

16

K123

In short does a postgrad degree have the same status as an undergrad?

In short, no.

Reply 9

ShadowCatz

K123

Lastly, again, the 'Oxford tag'.

I am aware the in postgraduate studies LSE is more reputed than Oxford (for Economics). But my main dilemma is that will an Oxford postgraduate degree give me the same 'prestige' (I do not like to use the word again and again, lol) as an Oxford undergraduate degree holder. In short does a postgrad degree have the same status as an undergrad?

First of all, what's the "Oxford tag"? :s-smilie:

Prestige is a subjective term that is seldom based on reality.

Reply 10

parkerpen

K123

I do not want to be an academic. Nevertheless, I enjoy Economics and have a serious interest in Politics (hence I applied for PPE). Therefore I am disappointed that I would not be able to benefit from Oxford small-group tutorial system.
Thus there are three reasons for my Oxford postgraduate decision. First, I like to think that it would compensate for my lack of experience of the one-to-one tutorial system study (tell me if I am wrong). Secondly, I want to do something in Politics/International Relations - due to interest and perhaps a career option. Lastly, again, the 'Oxford tag'.

I am aware the in postgraduate studies LSE is more reputed than Oxford (for Economics). But my main dilemma is that will an Oxford postgraduate degree give me the same 'prestige' (I do not like to use the word again and again, lol) as an Oxford undergraduate degree holder. In short does a postgrad degree have the same status as an undergrad?

The tutorial system - Actually a PhD is taught pretty much the same anywhere from what I understand. The tutorial system doesn't exist as such for a PhD. You do lots of reading, you then go and see your supervisor periodically and email them every now and again. They recommend other avenues of research, you go and do that. You then read something else. You write something down. You send it to them... get the drift? There is no need to go to oxbridge for one-on-one tutorials for PhD as the work is so self directed

Second Point - A PhD isn't likely to be the best way to do this. A taught masters, interning at think tanks are equally good if not better for this. A PhD is quite a highly specific endeavour into a narrow area (although it seems likea long time most people find eventually that its *only* three years).

obviously an oxbridge PhD is better for some jobs (ie academia) than simply having a BA in PPE. But people with PhDs and people with BAs tend to be competing for rather different jobs.
You also can't say that someone who goes to the LSE for a bacehlors and then onto Oxford is in a better position than someone who went the other way so to speak. I might well move from Cambridge (SPS) to LSE (Masters/PhD) or possibly onto Essex or UEA becuase they are equally good, if not better, for what I want to do. Whilst people pick Oxbridge for undergraduate degree beucase in almost every single course it is excellent and amongst the (if not the) best. Whilst Oxbridge is also very very good for a masters or a PhD the oxbridge factor is less important.
For instance if you are interested in psephology you should really consider Essex, environmental politics consider UEA, development studies look at sussex, pretty much anything then LSE.

That isn't to say that oxbridge doesn't have some excellent qualities such as copyright libraries, very good faculty members in a wide range of areas who can help you if your PhD supervisor isn't an expert in all areas you want to do, plenty of resources and scholarships etc. BUt you shouldn't choose it for a PhD simply because of the name

Reply 11

the_alba

12

K123

Thus there are three reasons for my Oxford postgraduate decision. First, I like to think that it would compensate for my lack of experience of the one-to-one tutorial system study (tell me if I am wrong). Secondly, I want to do something in Politics/International Relations - due to interest and perhaps a career option. Lastly, again, the 'Oxford tag'.

I am aware the in postgraduate studies LSE is more reputed than Oxford (for Economics). But my main dilemma is that will an Oxford postgraduate degree give me the same 'prestige' (I do not like to use the word again and again, lol) as an Oxford undergraduate degree holder. In short does a postgrad degree have the same status as an undergrad?

Stevo is wrong to say 'in short, no'. As I said before it depends on the course. The are some very competitive Master's courses at Oxford that many Oxford undergrads fail to get onto - such courses would thus be considered at least if not more 'prestigious' than an undergrad degree there.

Doing a taught Master's at Oxford will not get you one-to-oone tutorials - this is unfortunately (and very wrongly, in my opinion) restricted to undergrads. And for a DPhil you get one-to-one supervisions one or two times a term, but you get this anywhere (and it's not teaching). Besides, unless you want to be an academic there is little point in doing a DPhil.

Postgraduates are usually mature enough to realise that hollow 'prestige' is not a factor worthy of consideration when deciding where to go for a Master's or DPhil. It is about what is best for your specific (and by that time quite specialised) area of study. I think you will realise this in time, but for now you should just concentrate on your undergraduate degree - you can't say now what direction it will lead you in.

Reply 12

$Avatar for sTe\/o$

sTe\/o

16

the_alba

Stevo is wrong to say 'in short, no'. As I said before it depends on the course. The are some very competitive Master's courses at Oxford that many Oxford undergrads fail to get onto - such courses would thus be considered at least if not more 'prestigious' than an undergrad degree there.

Doing a taught Master's at Oxford will not get you one-to-oone tutorials - this is unfortunately (and very wrongly, in my opinion) restricted to undergrads. And for a DPhil you get one-to-one supervisions one or two times a term, but you get this anywhere (and it's not teaching). Besides, unless you want to be an academic there is little point in doing a DPhil.

Postgraduates are usually mature enough to realise that hollow 'prestige' is not a factor worthy of consideration when deciding where to go for a Master's or DPhil. It is about what is best for your specific (and by that time quite specialised) area of study. I think you will realise this in time, but for now you should just concentrate on your undergraduate degree - you can't say now what direction it will lead you in.

In short, no.

Sorry, j/k. :rolleyes:

Reply 13

K123

OP

sTe\/o

In short, no.

In a good way no? As in a postgrad at Oxford is better than an undergrad (in terms of prestige)?

Reply 14

K123

OP

ShadowCatz

First of all, what's the "Oxford tag"? :s-smilie:

Prestige is a subjective term that is seldom based on reality.

I come from a different country, so studying in the UK itself is quite laudable in my counrty. But having studied at Oxford or Cambridge is simply brilliant - not only in India but worldwide.

Thus, by "Oxford tag" I mean the status of the degrees as opposed to other university. Indeed any degree at Oxbridge is great (postgrad or undergrad). Let me put my question in a more simple, blunt way.

In general terms, which of the following is better: A person with an undergraduate Economics degree from LSE/Warwick/UCL and an MPhil from Oxford; or a person with an undergraduate degree in PPE from Oxford and an MSc/Mphil etc. from LSE/Warwick/UCL, etc.? I hope this makes my dilemma clear.

Thank you guys.

Reply 15

jbruner17

It depends on the job they're fighting over!

Reply 16

Turdburger

16

Postgraduates are usually mature enough to realise that hollow 'prestige' is not a factor worthy of consideration when deciding where to go for a Master's or DPhil.

But you have to consider that there are some employers who wont know that the university you did a PhD in is good or bad for the subject, and will just see Oxford and assume its good.

Reply 17

ShadowCatz

K123

In general terms, which of the following is better: A person with an undergraduate Economics degree from LSE/Warwick/UCL and an MPhil from Oxford; or a person with an undergraduate degree in PPE from Oxford and an MSc/Mphil etc. from LSE/Warwick/UCL, etc.? I hope this makes my dilemma clear.

If you're looking for "old boy" networks and the like then they've largely disappeared. Cambridge is not as famous in the US as Oxford. Indeed a large number of Americans have not heard of Cambridge (source=shadylane).

In short, there is no simple answer. If you want to do a postgrad at Oxbridge, go ahead but don't do it just for the name.

Reply 18

shady lane

16

Heartbreaker

But you have to consider that there are some employers who wont know that the university you did a PhD in is good or bad for the subject, and will just see Oxford and assume its good.

Any employer hiring PhDs will certainly know the quality of a department over a university's "prestige."

Reply 19

Turdburger

16

Investment banks?

Prestige: undergraduate versus postgraduate degrees

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