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Brexit poll; how your attitudes have changed watch

  • View Poll Results: How have your views on brexit changed?
    Consistently Remain
    36.51%
    Consistently Leave
    30.16%
    Was Remain, now Leave
    14.29%
    Was Leave, now Remain
    12.70%
    Still undecided
    6.35%

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    I'm interested, in addition to the way you are likely to vote, to know how you have been swayed by the arguments. Were you remain initially, now leave? Leave initially now Remain?
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    Good idea for a thread

    I was supportive of the EU before the referendum and if anything have become even more pro EU since. The majority of brexiters I despise and have only gotten worse - see Boris and part Kenyan ancestry etc .
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Good idea for a thread

    I was supportive of the EU before the referendum and if anything have become even more pro EU since. The majority of brexiters I despise and have only gotten worse - see Boris and part Kenyan ancestry etc .
    I think the problem is, leave is dominated by the right and the divisive. I think we need to see people like Kate Hoey more often in these debates. I'm leave, although I can understand the perspective that alot of people in the camp are unwholesome.
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    (Original post by QuantumOverlord)
    I think the problem is, leave is dominated by the right and the divisive. I think we need to see people like Kate Hoey more often in these debates. I'm leave, although I can understand the perspective that alot of people in the camp are unwholesome.
    I dont often say this, but I have no idea why she is in the Labour Party. She describes herself as a libertarian, supports handguns and fox hunting. That's like Nick Clegg joining UKIP.
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    Consistently, though not exactly wholeheartedly, remain. Wasn't impressed by the supposed renegotiation, and the dreadful handling of the migrant crisis certainly tempted me to vote leave, but on balance I'll still be voting to stay.
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    It would be great if people who changed their mind could say what swayed them
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    (Original post by QuantumOverlord)
    I think the problem is, leave is dominated by the right and the divisive. I think we need to see people like Kate Hoey more often in these debates. I'm leave, although I can understand the perspective that alot of people in the camp are unwholesome.
    I agree with this, I think its the biggest problem for the leave campaign.

    For many years the Europe debate has rumbled on and the Eurosceptics main goal was always to get a referendum. The pro-EU part of the Conservative party, Labour and the Lib Dems were always terrified of a referendum because they thought the moment you open that gate, it will lead to Britain leaving the EU. It always left them open to the easy attack from the Eurosceptics - why not let the British people decide?

    However now it has happened the Eurosceptic movement is suffering from the fact that many of its frontmen have a limited constituency of appeal - they are divisive politicians that like to attack immigrants, the public sector, people on welfare and so appeal to a certain part of society but when it comes to casting for a broad appeal they struggle from most people finding them obnoxious.
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    I agree with this, I think its the biggest problem for the leave campaign.

    For many years the Europe debate has rumbled on and the Eurosceptics main goal was always to get a referendum. The pro-EU part of the Conservative party, Labour and the Lib Dems were always terrified of a referendum because they thought the moment you open that gate, it will lead to Britain leaving the EU. It always left them open to the easy attack from the Eurosceptics - why not let the British people decide?

    However now it has happened the Eurosceptic movement is suffering from the fact that many of its frontmen have a limited constituency of appeal - they are divisive politicians that like to attack immigrants, the public sector, people on welfare and so appeal to a certain part of society but when it comes to casting for a broad appeal they struggle from most people finding them obnoxious.
    Yes good points. Personally I really like Daniel Hannan, he is softly spoken and mild mannered. However he is still a conservative voice which doesn't appeal to large sections of the left.
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    (Original post by QuantumOverlord)
    Yes good points. Personally I really like Daniel Hannan, he is softly spoken and mild mannered. However he is still a conservative voice which doesn't appeal to large sections of the left.
    Yes Daniel Hannan is articulate and softly spoken and he makes powerful arguments against Europe. The problem he has is he's a right wing ideologue who's views on many things clash with large sections of the British electorate not just the left. He is very hostile to the NHS and also thinks that UK workers have it too easy and should have reduced annual leave and so on.

    Within the left I think "remain" has basically wrapped up most of the centre left and most of the young which is why they will probably win the election. It would have been interesting if Tony Benn had still been around as he would have been the best at making the leave argument.

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    Bad poll. Where is the undecided and now remain and undecided and now leave? For me and most people that was the case
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    (Original post by Sebastian Bartlett)
    Bad poll. Where is the undecided and now remain and undecided and now leave? For me and most people that was the case
    I'm not going to add loads of options because it will be too sparsely populated to be useful to anyone. In your case, put Remain, now leave.
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    Was instinctively, if tentatively Remain, now I honestly don't care.

    To be clear, I have been talked out of voting in this referendum by both sides total failure to even attempt to form balanced arguments and constant retreats to complete ********.

    The fact that UK politics has, for the last 6 months essentially boiled down to having the same stupid argument over and over again hasn't helped either.
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    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    Was instinctively, if tentatively Remain, now I honestly don't care.

    To be clear, I have been talked out of voting in this referendum by both sides total failure to even attempt to form balanced arguments and constant retreats to complete ********.

    The fact that UK politics has, for the last 6 months essentially boiled down to having the same stupid argument over and over again hasn't helped either.
    I hope this can sway you toward voting again. http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3904875
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    (Original post by QuantumOverlord)
    I'm interested, in addition to the way you are likely to vote, to know how you have been swayed by the arguments. Were you remain initially, now leave? Leave initially now Remain?
    I've been wavering between in and out constantly for a while now.

    Ultimately I'm in favour of a closer union with Europe, but I don't really see the current EU being a union I think is good for all.

    When watching debates, I always side with the Brexiters. Politicians and personalities in favour of remaining always appear incompetent, while those in favour of leaving appear to be far more convincing. I hate choosing a position just because of authority, so I'm still undecided.
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    (Original post by Farm_Ecology)
    I've been wavering between in and out constantly for a while now.

    Ultimately I'm in favour of a closer union with Europe, but I don't really see the current EU being a union I think is good for all.

    When watching debates, I always side with the Brexiters. Politicians and personalities in favour of remaining always appear incompetent, while those in favour of leaving appear to be far more convincing. I hate choosing a position just because of authority, so I'm still undecided.
    Just look at what they are doing to Greece, then ask yourself if that's what you want for Britain.
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    Very remain to slight Leave.

    Essentially i have come to the conclusion that the EU is nowhere near as objectively important to our future as either side would like to admit, at least when you consider the reality of how exit will look under a Tory government. On economic grounds we'll see fiscal savings but lose investment and a few hundred thousand jobs plus some growth but it won't be that bad and by 2020 i'd expect things to be recovering. On immigration grounds i find the arguments from the Brexit camp awful (not least since they should be supporting supply side economics since Ukip is right of center) but despite being perfectly fine with freedom of movement for Europeans i find the current attitude to the migrant crisis to be breathtakingly bad, for Germany to be permitted to pollute our continent with the third world is abhorrent and so long as the EU does not have a common external border (not internal, i'm fine with Shengen), i'm afraid i can't in good conscience vote to stay. For a million third worlders to be given the right to move here is beyond the pale, at least to join the EU you end up with decent education systems and generally speaking, similar cultural values. Additionally, i have a soft spot for the Anglosphere and in the long run while i support the federalisation of Europe, i don't ever see the UK willingly joining the Euro or ceding parliamentary control to join such a federation. There's little point staying with a girl you never want to have your kids so to speak.

    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    I agree with this, I think its the biggest problem for the leave campaign.

    For many years the Europe debate has rumbled on and the Eurosceptics main goal was always to get a referendum. The pro-EU part of the Conservative party, Labour and the Lib Dems were always terrified of a referendum because they thought the moment you open that gate, it will lead to Britain leaving the EU. It always left them open to the easy attack from the Eurosceptics - why not let the British people decide?

    However now it has happened the Eurosceptic movement is suffering from the fact that many of its frontmen have a limited constituency of appeal - they are divisive politicians that like to attack immigrants, the public sector, people on welfare and so appeal to a certain part of society but when it comes to casting for a broad appeal they struggle from most people finding them obnoxious.
    This. The strategic approach from Brexit has been very poor with no real segmentation of the electorate and targeting in the manner we saw in the general election for example (Osbourne in consecutive budgets pandering to home owners, first time buyers and pensioners). This has meant that there's been no real attempt to target the Labour vote and essentially means they've lost before they've started.

    Either they were simply unprepared or as Portillo has speculated, Farage and co may have never really wanted a referendum (rather they wanted to keep the issue live and push the Tories in policy on immigration).

    (Original post by mojojojo101)
    Was instinctively, if tentatively Remain, now I honestly don't care.

    To be clear, I have been talked out of voting in this referendum by both sides total failure to even attempt to form balanced arguments and constant retreats to complete ********.

    The fact that UK politics has, for the last 6 months essentially boiled down to having the same stupid argument over and over again hasn't helped either.
    This. As somebody that is politically engaged and economically astute i can only say that this referendum has convinced me that we should never hold one on such a complex issue again. Both camps have been borderline illiterate and painted worst case scenarios which have no basis in reality. Awful!

    I'm still going to vote though.
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    Rakas21 agree with you on the need for a common external policy. I think we can expect to see this in at most ten years. As you rightly note, the established right of centre British economic system is migrant heavy, so immigration will be increasing regardless- in which a fair few will be third world workers. You paint brexit as short term pain for some long term benefit but wouldn't it be better for that outcome to remain in the EU?

    Can you envisage that when suffering the short term pain people are going to be more likely to vote for Corbyn and possibly lead to the break up of the UK? lastly, as somebody that supports the EU generally do you think it is worth the risk, however unlikley to allow for the break up of the EU and what that would mean for the UK? Y
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    Would really like to see what swayed Outters to voting IN
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    Rakas21 agree with you on the need for a common external policy. I think we can expect to see this in at most ten years. As you rightly note, the established right of centre British economic system is migrant heavy, so immigration will be increasing regardless- in which a fair few will be third world workers. You paint brexit as short term pain for some long term benefit but wouldn't it be better for that outcome to remain in the EU?

    Can you envisage that when suffering the short term pain people are going to be more likely to vote for Corbyn and possibly lead to the break up of the UK? lastly, as somebody that supports the EU generally do you think it is worth the risk, however unlikley to allow for the break up of the EU and what that would mean for the UK? Y
    Strictly speaking immigration does not need to increase since we have sufficient control to force net emigration if we wished. My point was that EU migrants are some of the least worst and arguments like we're full are stupid. The fact they are thirld worlders is bad though and something that concerns me greatly, these people (putting education and skills aside even) are not one of us either ethnically, religiously or culturally.

    I'm saying that the pain will be minimal and is not something to be afraid of, the long run benefits of in-out are largely the same when you consider that both the EU and UK will peruse trade. Going Out costs us more on net because with in you have no short term pain but it's not a remotely substantial cost given that growth and employment are fairly solid (losing 0.5% of growth and 500,000 jobs is small fry).

    Regarding Corbyn i don't see the threat really albeit yes, the chances of his election increase from maybe 30% to 35%. Short of a proper recession (not caused by leaving the EU), the Tories are home and dry in 2020 i feel.

    Scotland is not a price i would be willing to pay but at the same time our political class (both Labour and Tories) have no idea how to save the union and regions should not hold the rest of the union to ransom. If the EU is sufficient to push Scotland out then our political class has already lost Scotland.
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    (Original post by Rakas21)
    This. As somebody that is politically engaged and economically astute i can only say that this referendum has convinced me that we should never hold one on such a complex issue again. Both camps have been borderline illiterate and painted worst case scenarios which have no basis in reality. Awful!

    I'm still going to vote though.
    I was already highly cynical of the British political class, I didn't vote at the last election because of that but this ridiculous campaign has really been the final straw for me. These people and these parties are nt trustworthy and as far as I'm concerned, most likely, never will be.

    (Original post by JordanL_)
    I hope this can sway you toward voting again. http://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/show....php?t=3904875
    Still not convinced, probably going to be dependent on how I'm feeling on the day...
 
 
 
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