Is fervent left-wing anti-Semitism merely a ploy to court the Islamic vote?

Watch this thread
ImmunetoShaming
Badges: 1
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#1
Report Thread starter 6 years ago
#1
We all know the Muslim community isn't averse to an illiberal view or two, ie, according to the Guardian 40% of the Muslim community wants to see Sharia Law imposed on British society.

However, have the antics of the Labour Party - at least for the last few weeks - merely been about courting the Islamic vote? Is this the stage in time where we're finally seeing a concerted effort to appeal to a burgeoning Islamic community - currently estimated to be 2.7 million people - in terms they understand?

Ken Livingstone appears to be the sacrificial pawn - he was once a player, but now exists on the periphery of British politics. While every MSM organisation has come out in opposition to growing levels of anti-Semitism within the Labour Party - and throughout the left-wing - is it merely a ploy to court Islamic sympathy?
1
reply
MildredMalone
Badges: 16
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#2
Report 6 years ago
#2
Pretty much. Plus, the left seems to love islam, for some lunatic batpoo reason. As most muslims pointlessly hate Jews, the left probably sees it as an admirable position.
3
reply
Josb
Badges: 6
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#3
Report 6 years ago
#3
It seems obvious to me that it is the goal.

They don't realise that they are losing more votes by doing that.
5
reply
Jmeme10
Badges: 8
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#4
Report 6 years ago
#4
Because liberals think it is hip and trendy to reject Christianity and Judaism because of their slightly more traditional views. But instead embrace Islam and their medieval thinking. It would be so funny to see how refugees will treat the homosexuals who so desperately welcome them, do you think they will be welcoming of their lifestyle? Probably not.
6
reply
Joinedup
Badges: 20
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#5
Report 6 years ago
#5
Sort of, particularly in the local politics of some areas. There's been deaf ears turned to a lot of stuff coming out of certain conservative religious communities that should really have been challenged.

IMO lefties are particularly susceptible for temperamental reasons, they like to feel that they're siding with the underdog, they like a simple story (as we all do to an extent) and are attuned to victimhood narratives originating in designated underdog groups.
2
reply
generallee
Badges: 16
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#6
Report 6 years ago
#6
There is a categorisation of victimhood in left wing thought.

Some groups are worthy of support, others not, and there is a league table in which priorities are assigned. Right at the bottom are Jews (you will hear the Holocaust dismissed as a " white on white" crime by leftists) and right at the top are Muslims.

Nothing trumps Islmophobia. And feminists, or gays, who are themselves victimised by Muslim fundamentalists, had better get used to it because that is how it is.

Combine that with the leftish moral superiority and you can see why we get how we get the current ant semitism disaster for Labour.

Does Labour court the Muslim vote or do Islamists use entryist tactics? Probably a bit of both, but it is the left's advocacy of "Islamophobia" as the greatest evil on earth that is the root of it all...
2
reply
The Epicurean
Badges: 17
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#7
Report 6 years ago
#7
If you want to attract the anti-semitic vote, you wouldn't remove individuals who were anti-semitic, but defend them and keep them in the party, but Ken Livingstones departure would seem to imply the opposite. If they want a party an anti-semitic party, they always have George Galloway to vote for.


Anyway, not everybody on the Left supports Islamists or condones anti-Semitism.
1
reply
Unkempt_One
Badges: 13
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#8
Report 6 years ago
#8
I don't think that's slightly the case. I can imagine the centrists politicians who were the backbone of Labour when it was actually electable are furious about this (although it does give them a convenient opportunity to smear Corbyn's allies).
0
reply
Josb
Badges: 6
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#9
Report 6 years ago
#9
(Original post by The Epicurean)
If you want to attract the anti-semitic vote, you wouldn't remove individuals who were anti-semitic, but defend them and keep them in the party, but Ken Livingstones departure would seem to imply the opposite. If they want a party an anti-semitic party, they always have George Galloway to vote for.


Anyway, not everybody on the Left supports Islamists or condones anti-Semitism.
This is national politics. It's different at the local level.
0
reply
Erebor
Badges: 2
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#10
Report 6 years ago
#10
Muslims already overwhelmingly vote labour, more than any other religious group. Not a surprise since over 60% of them are unemployed, although trying to discuss that on here will get your thread deleted along with a ''friendly warning''. It's disheartening to see marxist principles being used as guidelines on a 2016 western, online forum populated by students especially as someone who lived under the worst communist regime in eastern europe (and its aftermath) for a good number of years.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/gene...-vote-for.html
1
reply
tengentoppa
Badges: 18
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#11
Report 6 years ago
#11
(Original post by The Epicurean)
If you want to attract the anti-semitic vote, you wouldn't remove individuals who were anti-semitic, but defend them and keep them in the party, but Ken Livingstones departure would seem to imply the opposite. If they want a party an anti-semitic party, they always have George Galloway to vote for.


Anyway, not everybody on the Left supports Islamists or condones anti-Semitism.
Definitely not a good idea to be anti-semitic on the national level. But trying to be an MP in Bradford without pandering to anti-semitic Muslim feeling is like trying to win a republican primary nomination in Mississipi by being pro-choice.

It would be preposterous to generalise the Left as entirely supportive of Islamism. But there is a non-negligible group on the Left who are happy to criticise every religion but Islam as regressive and intolerant, without looking at the most regressive and intolerant one of all.

On any given week you'll find opinion pieces on the Guardian, the Independent or HuffPost criticising the Catholic Church, anti-gay religious groups in the US, orthodox Jews etc. which is entirely justifiable.

But you will hardly ever see an article criticising Islam. Though you'll no doubt find plenty explaining how Muslims are the true victims of terrorist attacks, or how Islamophobia (a nonsense term in itself) is a growing menace in this society.

The bottom line is that if the majority of adherents to Islam in this country were white, left-wing figures and publications would be far more willing to criticise it.
8
reply
The Epicurean
Badges: 17
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#12
Report 6 years ago
#12
(Original post by tengentoppa)
Definitely not a good idea to be anti-semitic on the national level. But trying to be an MP in Bradford without pandering to anti-semitic Muslim feeling is like trying to win a republican primary nomination in Mississipi by being pro-choice.
I'd like to think that such a vote could be won without having to be anti-semitic and that the Muslim voters do not base their vote on a single policy or issue. Even if talking about and raising aware of the suffering of the Ummah is a vote winner, then the MP could be tactical and talk about the issue of the Rohingya. It is much like poor white working class neighbourhoods. One could probably gain quite a number of votes in such neighbourhoods by expressing some rather intolerable views, but I do believe that there are other ways for also garnering the support of the white working class vote, without having to take that route.

It would be preposterous to generalise the Left as entirely supportive of Islamism. But there is a non-negligible group on the Left who are happy to criticise every religion but Islam as regressive and intolerant, without looking at the most regressive and intolerant one of all.

On any given week you'll find opinion pieces on the Guardian, the Independent or HuffPost criticising the Catholic Church, anti-gay religious groups in the US, orthodox Jews etc. which is entirely justifiable.

But you will hardly ever see an article criticising Islam. Though you'll no doubt find plenty explaining how Muslims are the true victims of terrorist attacks, or how Islamophobia (a nonsense term in itself) is a growing menace in this society.

The bottom line is that if the majority of adherents to Islam in this country were white, left-wing figures and publications would be far more willing to criticise it.
I will be more than willing to admit that there are a large number of frustratingly regressive individuals on the left who are ready and willing to pander to Islamists and such groups. But it is frustrating that some people (not yourself) who don't realise that there are individuals on the left who are willing to challenge such regressive values and are willing to defend freedom of speech, among other issues.
0
reply
tengentoppa
Badges: 18
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#13
Report 6 years ago
#13
(Original post by The Epicurean)
I'd like to think that such a vote could be won without having to be anti-semitic and that the Muslim voters do not base their vote on a single policy or issue. Even if talking about and raising aware of the suffering of the Ummah is a vote winner, then the MP could be tactical and talk about the issue of the Rohingya. It is much like poor white working class neighbourhoods. One could probably gain quite a number of votes in such neighbourhoods by expressing some rather intolerable views, but I do believe that there are other ways for also garnering the support of the white working class vote, without having to take that route.



I will be more than willing to admit that there are a large number of frustratingly regressive individuals on the left who are ready and willing to pander to Islamists and such groups. But it is frustrating that some people (not yourself) who don't realise that there are individuals on the left who are willing to challenge such regressive values and are willing to defend freedom of speech, among other issues.
This is frustrating for me too, because the debate immediately becomes a partisan left vs right debate, rather than focusing on the issue at hand.
0
reply
Tawheed
Badges: 20
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#14
Report 6 years ago
#14
(Original post by The Epicurean)
If you want to attract the anti-semitic vote, you wouldn't remove individuals who were anti-semitic, but defend them and keep them in the party, but Ken Livingstones departure would seem to imply the opposite. If they want a party an anti-semitic party, they always have George Galloway to vote for.


Anyway, not everybody on the Left supports Islamists or condones anti-Semitism.
My Goodness.

George Galloway is absolutely not anti-semitic.

People throwing false accusations of anti-semitism truly undermine real anti-semitism.

0
reply
ImmunetoShaming
Badges: 1
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#15
Report Thread starter 6 years ago
#15
(Original post by The Epicurean)
I will be more than willing to admit that there are a large number of frustratingly regressive individuals on the left who are ready and willing to pander to Islamists and such groups. But it is frustrating that some people (not yourself) who don't realise that there are individuals on the left who are willing to challenge such regressive values and are willing to defend freedom of speech, among other issues.
Your problem is amplified by the fact every MSM organisation, with the exception of Breitbart and occasionally the Telegraph, pursues a policy of bias by omission as far as Islam is concerned. The Guardian even affords terrorists a platform in CiF.

Worse than that, they frequently project/deflect the issues (barbarism and illiberal values) onto the resident population, ie, 'well, Christianity did some bad stuff too', as if the population at large has some association to, or responsibility for, Christianity, or is expected to accept the logical fallacy that because Christianity perpetrated historical atrocities (like Islam), modern Islam is more (if not completely) acceptable.

So while it may be a minority of left-wingers (however you'd choose to define these people, or that term) who advocate these views (moral relativism), it's evident that what the right-wing and everybody else who doesn't classify as left-wing sees is lunacy - outright, destructive, subversive, far-left lunacy. This stokes even more fear, and a greater sense that everything really is out of control.

From the outside looking in, and when the most prominent left-wing figures in the country advocate these viewpoints, the electorate has no choice but to scratch its head and stare in bewilderment at what is nothing more than an outright betrayal of everything we're supposed to stand for.
0
reply
Josb
Badges: 6
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#16
Report 6 years ago
#16
(Original post by Tawheed)
My Goodness.

George Galloway is absolutely not anti-semitic.

People throwing false accusations of anti-semitism truly undermine real anti-semitism.

Britain never granted Israel to the Jews in "reparation" for the Holocaust. Britain abstained during the vote of the UN resolution creating two states in Palestine (one Jewish, one Arabic). The creation of Israel was especially encouraged by the USSR and the USA.

Moreover, Palestine was not a country when Israel was created. It was a British mandate.

The Holocaust is said to be caused by "Christian Antisemitism", without mentioning the Nazis. :rolleyes:


This video is grossly false, not to mention the shocking spelling.
4
reply
BRING BACK MHOC
Badges: 19
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#17
Report 6 years ago
#17
(Original post by ImmunetoShaming)
We all know the Muslim community isn't averse to an illiberal view or two, ie, according to the Guardian 40% of the Muslim community wants to see Sharia Law imposed on British society.

However, have the antics of the Labour Party - at least for the last few weeks - merely been about courting the Islamic vote? Is this the stage in time where we're finally seeing a concerted effort to appeal to a burgeoning Islamic community - currently estimated to be 2.7 million people - in terms they understand?

Ken Livingstone appears to be the sacrificial pawn - he was once a player, but now exists on the periphery of British politics. While every MSM organisation has come out in opposition to growing levels of anti-Semitism within the Labour Party - and throughout the left-wing - is it merely a ploy to court Islamic sympathy?
'Antics of the Labour Party'? Do you mean the disgusting racist remarks that were made by a couple of members who were promptly(and rightly) rounded on and expelled by the party that has Jewish MPs, Jewish peers and whose last leader was Jewish?
0
reply
The Epicurean
Badges: 17
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#18
Report 6 years ago
#18
(Original post by Tawheed)
My Goodness.

George Galloway is absolutely not anti-semitic.

People throwing false accusations of anti-semitism truly undermine real anti-semitism.
Here you go. George Galloway says "I don't debate Israelis".



What does that even mean? Indonesia currently illegally posses West Papua. Would George Galloway ever say "I don't debate Indonesians"? Firstly, not every single person in Israel supports every action of their government. One does not choose where they are born. It is like me holding every American culpable for wrong actions committed by their government, which is absurd as some of the biggest critics of the American government are Americans themselves. Israel is no different.

He is also making a blanket judgement that every Israeli citizen is a pro-zionist Jew, which is wrong. There is no way to defend the comment he has made. He could have said that he was not willing to debate an apologist for the Israeli government, but that is not what he said.
1
reply
Josb
Badges: 6
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#19
Report 6 years ago
#19
(Original post by The Epicurean)
Here you go. George Galloway says "I don't debate Israelis".



What does that even mean? Indonesia currently illegally posses West Papua. Would George Galloway ever say "I don't debate Indonesians"? Firstly, not every single person in Israel supports every action of their government. One does not choose where they are born. It is like me holding every American culpable for wrong actions committed by their government, which is absurd as some of the biggest critics of the American government are Americans themselves. Israel is no different.

He is also making a blanket judgement that every Israeli citizen is a pro-zionist Jew, which is wrong. There is no way to defend the comment he has made. He could have said that he was not willing to debate an apologist for the Israeli government, but that is not what he said.
It would also exclude Arab-Israelians... :rolleyes:
0
reply
Tawheed
Badges: 20
Rep:
? You'll earn badges for being active around the site. Rep gems come when your posts are rated by other community members.
#20
Report 6 years ago
#20
(Original post by The Epicurean)
Here you go. George Galloway says "I don't debate Israelis".



What does that even mean? Indonesia currently illegally posses West Papua. Would George Galloway ever say "I don't debate Indonesians"? Firstly, not every single person in Israel supports every action of their government. One does not choose where they are born. It is like me holding every American culpable for wrong actions committed by their government, which is absurd as some of the biggest critics of the American government are Americans themselves. Israel is no different.

He is also making a blanket judgement that every Israeli citizen is a pro-zionist Jew, which is wrong. There is no way to defend the comment he has made. He could have said that he was not willing to debate an apologist for the Israeli government, but that is not what he said.
There are a number of israeli's George has shared and agreed to share a platform with. He has even acknowledged not all israeli's even like what their government does. In this debate, he was debating an israeli who had i believe served in the israeli military arguing for israel.

Infact, here is a Jewish man himself who attests that George is not anti-semitic:



You may argue he might be other things, but anti-semitic he is not.

Here is his explanation as to why he did not debate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8jgZHlV9UMI

Now, this is one of those rare instances i disagree with george. I would say just debate the guy. But i would never say what he did was wrong. As he would not debate with a supporter of apartheid south africa defending it whilst themselves living in that racist system, he will not debate an israel who lives in israel and defends the government.

You could be a muslim, jew, hindu zionist, if you share a platform and defend israel he won't debate you.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Year 12s - where are you at with making decisions about university?

I’ve chosen my course and my university (25)
28.09%
I’ve chosen my course and shortlisted some universities (31)
34.83%
I’ve chosen my course, but not any universities (8)
8.99%
I’ve chosen my university, but not my course (3)
3.37%
I’ve shortlisted some universities, but not my course (5)
5.62%
I’m starting to consider my university options (12)
13.48%
I haven’t started thinking about university yet (3)
3.37%
I’m not planning on going to university (2)
2.25%

Watched Threads

View All