Nursing mental and adult Watch

James123456789q
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Can I do adult nursing then do another degree for mental health nursing, so I am registered as a mental health nurse and adult nurse ?
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wbnurse
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I don't understand why you'd want to do this....
You wouldn't be able to get 2 lots of funding to do both degrees anyway. Also I doubt very much youl be registered as both because you'd have to do so many practical hours within appropriate settings to keeps your pin. And that would mean having 2 pins x


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steff85
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Well...as it's not going to be funded from next year, I think you can do that, get one degree and then the other one bit you LL be studying for at least six years, maybe you can do adult nursing degree and then a top up degree in mentale health

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PaediatricStN
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(Original post by wbnurse)
I don't understand why you'd want to do this....
You wouldn't be able to get 2 lots of funding to do both degrees anyway. Also I doubt very much youl be registered as both because you'd have to do so many practical hours within appropriate settings to keeps your pin. And that would mean having 2 pins x


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Nurses who are dual registered still only have one PIN
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PaediatricStN
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(Original post by James123456789q)
Can I do adult nursing then do another degree for mental health nursing, so I am registered as a mental health nurse and adult nurse ?
If you're interested in becoming registered in two fields of nursing, this is generally known as "Dual registered", though I believe the NMC are trying to move away from this term.

Some universities offer a 4 year, full time degree course which allows registration in two fields of practice which may be of interest to you, as opposed to the 3 year course which allows registration in one field.

University of Southampton is one of the few universities that offer this dual course. See here: http://www.southampton.ac.uk/healths...ntal_hlth.page

Hope that helps
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moonkatt
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(Original post by wbnurse)
I don't understand why you'd want to do this....
You wouldn't be able to get 2 lots of funding to do both degrees anyway. Also I doubt very much youl be registered as both because you'd have to do so many practical hours within appropriate settings to keeps your pin. And that would mean having 2 pins x


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People with dual registration tend to work in roles where they use skills from both branches they're registered in. For dual registered people, you're right in saying they need to work double the practice hours, that's 900 hours over three years, or about six hours a week. It is possible to get funding to become dual registered, sometimes it's through secondment if your employer thinks it's needed for your role. Alternatively, I think Southampton does a pre reg course offering dual registration in some branches of nursing.
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wbnurse
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Oh I see! Thanks guys learn something new everyday


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InArduisFouette
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(Original post by moonkatt)
People with dual registration tend to work in roles where they use skills from both branches they're registered in. For dual registered people, you're right in saying they need to work double the practice hours, that's 900 hours over three years, or about six hours a week. It is possible to get funding to become dual registered, sometimes it's through secondment if your employer thinks it's needed for your role. Alternatively, I think Southampton does a pre reg course offering dual registration in some branches of nursing.
You DO NOT need 900 hours to maintain 2 Nursing sub parts

the 900 requirement is if people want to retain BOTH Midwifery and Nursing / Public Health Specialist Nurse . 450 Madwifery, 450 Nursing


this is why the NMC dislike the use of dual registered in terms of people with 2 nursing sub parts or people who are on the public health Nurse specialists register
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moonkatt
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(Original post by zippyRN)
You DO NOT need 900 hours to maintain 2 Nursing sub parts

the 900 requirement is if people want to retain BOTH Midwifery and Nursing / Public Health Specialist Nurse . 450 Madwifery, 450 Nursing


this is why the NMC dislike the use of dual registered in terms of people with 2 nursing sub parts or people who are on the public health Nurse specialists register
Oh yeah, I must have misread things, easily done when shattered.

Ok, so that's three hours of nursing a week then for three years to remain on the register then.
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wbnurse
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(Original post by moonkatt)
Oh yeah, I must have misread things, easily done when shattered.

Ok, so that's three hours of nursing a week then for three years to remain on the register then.
What do you mean by "then for 3 years" so after you've done 3 hours a week for 3 years you remain on the registered for life? X


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moonkatt
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(Original post by wbnurse)
What do you mean by "then for 3 years" so after you've done 3 hours a week for 3 years you remain on the registered for life? X


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You revalidate every three years, so you have to work a minimum of 450 hours and do the required amount of CPD (think its 35 hours but I can't remember right now) to revalidate. You pay your registration every year though.
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InArduisFouette
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(Original post by moonkatt)
Oh yeah, I must have misread things, easily done when shattered.

Ok, so that's three hours of nursing a week then for three years to remain on the register then.
yep and it doesn;t even have to be patient contact , just a job that requires registration - ultimate self licking lollipop ...
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InArduisFouette
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(Original post by wbnurse)
What do you mean by "then for 3 years" so after you've done 3 hours a week for 3 years you remain on the registered for life? X


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450 hours of 'practice' which may not include patient contact (just working in a role which require registration ) and 35 hours of learning across each 3 year period .... asnd the written bits and pieces and peer supervisions etc ... and of course pay your money every year
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Swagio
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Oxford brooks also do dual reg degree and is 4 years.
I want to specialise in looked after children mental health - secure children's homes/ accommodation etc. which is very specific so children's and mh dual would of been good! And an instance when both roles would be used as one really.
But funding is a big issue for us all!! And tbh you can only usually do one or the other so I'd probably say do the one you want and work then maybe convert if you still want to?


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ButterflyRN
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You can also do 18 month top ups after you have qualified in one branch although I understand that these are few and far between now. I eventually want to be dual registered in Adult and MH as I have a keen interest in dementia and developing the role of care of the elderly nurses as the vast majority of patients admitted into acute DME beds have a diagnosis of dementia and most exhibit very challenging behaviour. The support we get at current from the MH team in helping us manage these patients is lack lustre at best and I would love to change this!!
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deviant182
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Instead of being dual qualified in adult and mental health or children and mental health....why not do learning disability nursing?
You can work with all ages and are trained in learning disability and mental health as many people with learning disabilities also have mental health issues too.
And many employers recognise the skill set a learning disability nurse has when it comes to working with mental health and dementia etc.
I know many ld nurses who work in neurology and dementia units etc due to their skill set and training.
Just a thought!

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ButterflyRN
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(Original post by deviant182)
Instead of being dual qualified in adult and mental health or children and mental health....why not do learning disability nursing?
You can work with all ages and are trained in learning disability and mental health as many people with learning disabilities also have mental health issues too.
And many employers recognise the skill set a learning disability nurse has when it comes to working with mental health and dementia etc.
I know many ld nurses who work in neurology and dementia units etc due to their skill set and training.
Just a thought!

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LD is a great branch of nursing, but just not for me. And it's a very rare branch of nursing these days as many universities have stopped offering the degree which may make it more difficult to get in, which is a shame

On a side note I am very dubious about having nurses solely trained in MH and LD looking after dementia patients due to the co-morbidities of the patients. The amount of times we get patients from the Elderly Mental Health Wards with dehydration because they can't put up a subcutaneous drip when the patient is having a bad day is ridiculous, or the constipations that come in!!! And the one thing that irks me off the most are patients being admitted with an aspiration pneumonia because they can't recognise dysphagia (one of the classic symptoms of declining dementia) and do a SALT referral. My friend also works on an Elderly Mental Health Ward but is adult trained because the MH nurses couldn't cope with the co-morbidities and are completely clueless on how to manage the physical conditions of these patients. This is why I'd like to dual train because I understand the physiological effects of dementia and the co-morbidities that go with it, but being adult trained we don't have a great understanding of the psych side of things although I think the girls on our ward have more of a clue than the Mental Health Liaison Team who are next to useless. There's so much more to dementia than just the physical effects, there's always the depression, extreme mood swings, psychotic symptoms etc. and knowledge of all the psych meds so on and so forth. I know me and the girls would love to delve into the MH side of the illness, as it is a MH illness after all. I am also noticing an increase in elderly patients diagnosed with other mental health illnesses such as depression, bipolar, schizophrenia and as of late, a lot of alcoholics and even ex IV drug users! So there is a definitely a need and demand to dual train in DME.

Anyway I have really gone off topic now.
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deviant182
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(Original post by ButterflyRN)
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Well please don't tar all with the same brush.
Learning disability nurses work very closely with SALT AND many other professionals due to so many people with learning disabilities having various physical health problems including dysphagia. This is very common within learning disabilities.
As many people with learning disabilities also have a predisposition to dementia as well as other problems we are trained in how to take bloods especially from non compliant patients as well as doing drips etc as you mention. And as a lot of our patients would be in the community we are very adept at setting up drips manually rather than relying on a machine which many adult nurses would do (perhaps?).
Never mind that a lot of patients would have constipation that I would work with and balancing and managing this is a very careful job as constipation can trigger their epilepsy. But then again, saying that mental health and learning disability nurses cannot deal with the physical ailments of patients is something we face every day. And if such inequalities are faced each day by us as professionals can you imagine the inequalities that patients with learning disabilities and/or mental health issues face?
Personally I believe this mind set needs to stop.

Asides from that, adult nurses are not very good at communicating non verbally or using sign language or makaton as training does not cover that unless it is carried out post qualification and only if desperately needed.

And learning disability nursing is not a rare field. Have you looked at recent findings covering how many people currently have a learning disability that are known to services? And those are just the ones that are known.
There are plenty of learning disability courses, and many offering dual qualification with social work duet the overlap of skills.

Please do not being saying such things as above and appearing to demean fields when you are not sure of the training the other fields cover.
Each field has its own speciality and while it would be good for nurses to cover the whole range (similarly to usa) the specialities serve a purpose.

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Swagio
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I think what nursing branch you want to do is a personal thing and if I'm honest I've never had an interest in learning disability nor children's.

Having worked across a lot of areas from elderly (including elderly mental health) and palliative care to in respite for people with learning disabilities and degenerative diseases, through to early years and adolescents and social work atm. I decided mh nursing.
But I can say all teams have their strengths and weaknesses and to deny those is to fail your service users.
I know mental health nurses whose physical health knowledge is crap through to general a&e nurses who think mh is all just attention seeking and have seen a sadly high level of stigma.
In social services there are also many weaknesses but in all areas no one wants to acknowledge them!!! And people get offended and defensive, when the person at the centre of it all is the most important, but sadly I've only ever worked one place who truly practices that work ethic and it was honestly the best place to work!


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PaediatricStN
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The desire for interprofessional learning is great, and its benefits are well documented, but we are all part of a wider multi-disciplinary team for a reason and that is because we all bring different skills and knowledge to the table. This should be appreciated and recognised.

It is not possible for us as nurses to do all and be all for our patients (As hard as I know we try to be!) not only because we can't know everything but also because of the increasingly complex needs of our patients which span across more than one sphere of medicine/area of practice.
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