Why do meninists think anyone cares what they have to say?

No of course, of course!! I meant when 3rd wave ends and 4th begins, you will see the significance of the 3rd. I didn't make that very clear.

For the most part I think 3rd wave has changed attitudes of people, people have to now clarify they are not being sexist, people don't just come out with sexist things. People notice sexism more.

But when it comes to structural feminist and intersectional feminism, those ideas began with the 2nd wave.

They're a bunch of self-gratifying losers who only care about putting feminists down, so, you know, just wondering.

No, it isn't achieving anything, except division between genders.

That's usually the first, go-to response by feminists when asked why they don't help Islamic women.

Oh sorry! I misunderstood your comment. I agree these are ideas that began with the second wave, but I find that it is in the third wave that change has really been made, although of course there is still so far to go as posts such as those on this thread show.

That's a circular argument. It's also clearly untrue. You can stand for equality without being in favour of positive discrimination or quotas. You can stand for equality with believing in things like the gender pay gap (which is a totally fictitious construct) or rape culture (which doesn't exist in Western Europe, or didn't until the influx of Middle Eastern and North African men). You can stand for equality whilst not thinking there is something wrong with men and women making different choices in career path, and believing that there are fundamental differences between the minds of men and women.

Saying you believe in equality, therefore you're a feminist, is equivalent to saying anyone who believes in a deity is Christian.

You know meninism is a parody of feminism right? So meninists are literally trolls.

I disagree with p much everything here. Firstly, the pay gap is not a construct and you clearly need to do more research; secondly, rape culture does exist in Western Europe, it is a global issue- try reading Louise O'Neil's Asking For It perhaps for some insight- which leads to thousands of rapes going unreported every year. Also your belief that it is to do with immigrants is inherently racist.

There is biological evidence that almost all, if not all, of the differences between men and women are socially constructed. Again, do your research. It is all down to the way we are raised- girls strength is underestimated and so they often end up weaker, boys are told thing like 'boys don't cry' and become emotionally distant.

You're final point is simply not relevant- they are two completely different situations.

I disagree with p much everything here. Firstly, the pay gap is not a construct and you clearly need to do more research; secondly, rape culture does exist in Western Europe, it is a global issue- try reading Louise O'Neil's Asking For It perhaps for some insight- which leads to thousands of rapes going unreported every year. Also your belief that it is to do with immigrants is inherently racist.

There is biological evidence that almost all, if not all, of the differences between men and women are socially constructed. Again, do your research. It is all down to the way we are raised- girls strength is underestimated and so they often end up weaker, boys are told thing like 'boys don't cry' and become emotionally distant.

You're final point is simply not relevant- they are two completely different situations.

I'll go through these points one by one for clarity's sake:

1) The pay gap is absolutely a construct. Like, it's utterly refuted. The regularly quoted figure is something like women earn around 20% less than men. This figure is arrived at by adding up all the money men and women earn, and comparing the numbers. This is obviously a daft way to do such a comparison. If you compare men and women in the same role, working the same hours and with the same level of education, the pay gap drops to between 3% in favour of men, to 3% in favour of women. In fact, under the age of 35, the pay gap is most definitely in favour of women:

http://time.com/3222543/5-feminist-myths-that-will-not-die/
http://www.forbes.com/sites/karinagness/2016/04/12/dont-buy-into-the-gender-pay-gap-myth/#2edd652d4766
http://now.org/resource/the-gender-pay-gap-myth-vs-fact/
http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/harvard-prof.-takes-down-gender-wage-gap-myth/article/2580405
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/nov/27/young-women-earning-more-men

2) What on earth definition of rape culture are you using, to suggest that their is such an attitude in the West?! I'm gonna go with the dictionary definition, which defines rape culture as 'a society where rape is pervasive and normalised, as a result of attitudes towards gender and sexuality'. Now, last time I checked, rape is neither pervasive nor normalised in the West. You want to see what a rape culture looks like, try this BBC piece on South Africa:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/8107039.stm

That's what a rape culture is. Nowhere in the West does such a culture exist, so your claim is a nonsense. And how can you claim that thousands of rapes go unreported every year (I presume you mean in Britain); surely the definition of unreported claims is we don't know about them? If you can provide a source corroborating this I'd appreciate it.

3) Believing the migrants from the Middle East and North Africa hold deeply abhorrent views towards women is racist?! That's a ridiculous assertion, especially when it's blatantly true that such views are commonplace in these regions. Do you not see the irony in someone who champions feminism defending cultures who oppose more or less everything feminism stands for?

4) I'm not denying that social conditioning plays a part; it absolutely does. But the claim that there is no biological basis for the differences in choices men and women make is outdated by some 20 years. This documentary is a prime example:

[video="youtube;YTOFXLl7eh4"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTOFXLl7eh4[/video]

Of particular interest are two studies it quotes. Firstly, a study done on 50 odd countries which showed that as societies become more equal, less women choose to enter 'male-dominated' fields like STEM subjects. The reason being that in more backwards countries, women chooses the subjects they need to in order to make a living. But in countries with social welfare and the like, they choose what they want to. The other study was one done on 2 week old babies. They placed the babies on the floor surrounded by toys and left them alone in the room. The study showed that girls almost always went to play with dolls and faces, whereas boys would play with mechanical things like building blocks. And before you suggest this could be social conditioning, the same trend is observed in the offspring of all mammals. Whilst social conditioning most definitely does play a part in the differences between men and women, there is strong evidence that biology also plays a part.

4) How are they different? You're claiming that anyone who believes in equality is a feminist, regardless of any other differences in opinion. I'm saying anyone who believes in a god is a Christian, regardless of any other differences in opinion. The logic being used is essentially the same.

Boo hoo, being a social justice warrior in the 21st century is so hard with people disagreeing with you. They are all such bigots aren't they. :'(


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You're evidence is biased towards your own point of view. I have read plenty of evidence to support my own. It is easy to select evidence to support what you are claiming- any idiot with google can do it. Doesn't mean you are right.

You did the exact opposite of prove your point about rape culture, yes the whole point about unreported rapes is that they are unreported- to the police. Figures on actual rape figures can be found elsewhere, for example here.

You only served to prove my point about you being racist. There are bigots and rapists in all cultures and societies. The majority of rapes are committed by people the victims know, as you can read here, on the same page you can see that the majority of rapists are white (these figures are for the US as they were the easiest to find, but still relevant as you wish to discuss the Western world rather than the UK specifically).

The closest point to containing any truth is in the differences between men and women- but again, it all depends on where you look.

This is pointless. Goodbye.

You're pathetic.