GUARDIAN : More British Muslims fight for Isis than the UK army?

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Erebor
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Trump stated that more UK muslims are fighting for ISIS than for the UK military so ''The guardian'' decided to check the claim :

http://www.theguardian.com/news/real...h-muslims-isis

According to a freedom of information request to the Ministry of Defence from 2014, there are 640 Muslims in the armed forces: 550 in the army, 40 in the navy and 50 in the air force.
There are not 750 British people currently fighting with Isis – this is a cumulative figure. The British government estimates at least 260 have returned to the UK, which may be for a number of reasons, but many may have returned after becoming disillusioned at how different rebel groups were subsumed by Isis in the past two years.Maher has counted 50 Britons who have died in combat, although the government’s estimate is 60. Many more fighters in that 750 figure who left for Syria are also likely to be dead or disengaged, but their whereabouts are unknown.

That leaves an estimate of approximately 430 to 440 British fighters alive and currently in Syria, and there is a good chance that the majority are with Isis, Maher said.

1. Notice how much spin is needed to get a number that is extremely close (not counting the dead, the returnees etc) and then the clear victory is declared : ''OMGZZ Trump was wrong never in doubt!!!111''

2. Notice how out of 3 million UK muslims only 600 are in the military.

3. Notice how close the 2 numbers are even though ISIS are an internationally condemned/isolated bunch and one has to avoid security services, fly through other countries etc to get there while the UK military is a local/established institution, has recruiting offices down the street, ads everywhere, large recruiting budget and so on. Can you imagine how many UK muslim recruits ISIS would have if their could buy ads and open recruiting offices everywhere? The thought alone makes me nauseous.
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RezzBerry
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I'll go join the Army if that makes you feel any better.
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Maker
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There is an ISIS recruitment office near me.
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Erebor
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(Original post by Maker)
There is an ISIS recruitment office near me.
Image
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Josb
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The Guardian misread what Donald Trump wrote: "In Britain, more Muslims join ISIS than join the British army."


They haven't checked how many Muslims join the army and ISIS every year. Since ISIS has only been there for three years, Trump may be true.


To quote one of the comments:
"To obtain an accurate comparison, you would have to look at how many Muslims have joined ISIS and HM Armed Forces, not compare ISIS recruitment against current HMAF total. It would also be more meaningful to see if HMAF recruitment of Muslims has risen, fallen, or remained static over the past 10-15 years."
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Farm_Ecology
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Its an interesting comparison of numbers.

But im more concerned with the numbers joining isis than not joining the military.

Its perhaps good to note that we have a lower % than france, denmark, sweden, belgium, and possibly other countries.
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patrickstarfish
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wow what a surprise! but don't worry, this is part of cultural enrichment!
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Erebor
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(Original post by Josb)
The Guardian misread what Donald Trump wrote: "In Britain, more Muslims join ISIS than join the British army."


They haven't checked how many Muslims join the army and ISIS every year. Since ISIS has only been there for three years, Trump may be true.


To quote one of the comments:
"To obtain an accurate comparison, you would have to look at how many Muslims have joined ISIS and HM Armed Forces, not compare ISIS recruitment against current HMAF total. It would also be more meaningful to see if HMAF recruitment of Muslims has risen, fallen, or remained static over the past 10-15 years."
Yes, I ignored that part and avoided the semantics of it or doing my own spinning.
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BubbleBoobies
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"at least 260 have returned to the UK"
:lol: so basically it WAS a fact that there were more muslims in ISIS than the british army.
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Erebor
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(Original post by BubbleBoobies)
"at least 260 have returned to the UK"
:lol: so basically it WAS a fact that there were more muslims in ISIS than the british army.
No no, the disillusioned and the dead don't count. I think self-hating, regressive leftism should be treated as a mental health issue, the same way we do with depression or self-harming (not even joking).
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Lord Samosa
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I think with the recent invasion of Iraq for example, British Muslims perhaps feel a bit of distrust with the British Army. But personally, I don't know why so many join ISIS, perhaps they feel isolated within the UK in British and British Muslim society, and so feel a sense of belonging there? :dontknow:
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Erebor
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(Original post by Lord Samosa)
I think with the recent invasion of Iraq for example, British Muslims perhaps feel a bit of distrust with the British Army. But personally, I don't know why so many join ISIS, perhaps they feel isolated within the UK in British and British Muslim society, and so feel a sense of belonging there? :dontknow:
So basically it's the West's fault and nothing to do with islam?
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Camila Cabello
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(Original post by Lord Samosa)
I think with the recent invasion of Iraq for example, British Muslims perhaps feel a bit of distrust with the British Army. But personally, I don't know why so many join ISIS, perhaps they feel isolated within the UK in British and British Muslim society, and so feel a sense of belonging there? :dontknow:
They feel a greater sense of belonging with people who massacre Christians and children than with the country that gives them a safe life and opportunities to go as far as their merit will take them?
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Lord Samosa
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(Original post by Erebor)
So basically it's the West's fault and nothing to do with islam?
Where did you get that? :lol: I'm generally saying the people who join ISIS are social outcasts within British society, AND British Muslim society. They seem to target people like this to recruit.
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Lord Samosa
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(Original post by Camila Cabello)
They feel a greater sense of belonging with people who massacre Christians and children than with the country that gives them a safe life and opportunities to go as far as their merit will take them?
They're always the type who've got nothing going for them in life, no job, no education, no life. Perhaps they're mentally vulnerable and easily brainwashed. Your average British Muslim hates ISIS, but these guys still seem to want to join them. They tend to have white "converts" joining them too, so they obviously target certain types of people.
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Camila Cabello
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(Original post by Lord Samosa)
They're always the type who've got nothing going for them in life, no job, no education, no life. Perhaps they're mentally vulnerable and easily brainwashed.
There are many people of all races and religions that fits that description, yet it is only the Muslims that go to Syria. So those things cannot be the distinguishing factor.
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Erebor
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(Original post by Lord Samosa)
Where did you get that? :lol: I'm generally saying the people who join ISIS are social outcasts within British society, AND British Muslim society. They seem to target people like this to recruit.
First of all, many islamic terrorist are from well off families, educated and blend perfectly (look up the 9/11 bombers, the 7/7 terrorists, the marathon bombers, all these ''jihadi brides'' running away recently...). What do you think makes these ''outcasts'' feel the way they do and join ISIS? Is it anything to do with islam?
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HucktheForde
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(Original post by Lord Samosa)
I think with the recent invasion of Iraq for example, British Muslims perhaps feel a bit of distrust with the British Army. But personally, I don't know why so many join ISIS, perhaps they feel isolated within the UK in British and British Muslim society, and so feel a sense of belonging there? :dontknow:
My hypothesis is muslims feels uneasy and angry at the status quo of current world order. Muslims see themselves as a former great world power as they once had a golden age (hence the idea of forming a caliphate), only forced to accept the reality that now western countries and civilization are doing better and islamic countries has become chaotic and lag behind western ones. Muslims in britain can connect with other muslims from far away countries despite the distance because they both share similar values, language and belief, just the same way australia and canada supported britain in WWII due to cultural and langauge similarities despite canada and australia are far away and has no whatsover to do with WWII.

Muslims want to see islamic power rise in world order so that they can feel proud and respected. But those with a good life and good career would not risk losing everything to emotions. However those with little to lose, and has a drive to seek something meaningful in life, in this context, would be martyrdom, ISIS offers everything they want.
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Erebor
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(Original post by RezzBerry)
I'll go join the Army if that makes you feel any better.
What happens when you are sent to fight the ummah? What are you prepared to do?
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karl pilkington
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This doesn't surprise me. One of the problems with immigration is it pretends all people are 'British' and have 'British' values however a lot of Muslims would never dream of fighting for this country against their Muslim brothers.
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