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Has immigration made us less safe?

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Original post by Quantex
So rather than addressing my salient point that there has been 1 death in more than six years therefore it is difficult to argue that Islamic terrorism posses a considerable risk, you declare me mad?

As for obesity being the result of individual behaviour, obesity in the UK is far higher than in say France, on that basis it seems to be at least part a societal problem, one that we seem reluctant to address. However I can use different examples. Air pollution is linked to 40,000 early deaths a year. If the smart people of TSR want to make the UK a less risky and healthy place, they'd be having debates on how to reduce nitrous dioxide emissions than fixating on Islam all the time.

Thing is people are really crap at assessing risk. They see an act of terrorism on the TV and assume they are in danger. Some change their views and behaviour as a result, they become receptive to giving up our values, and in doing so hand terrorists a victory. But the cold hard truth is terrorism poses a very small risk to any given Brit as you life will most likely be shortened by something much more mundane.


Erm you chose your one death quite conveniently there were scores of people killed in 7/7 plus the number killed overseas in Afghanstan and the number prevented by the security services is not measurable. Also why are you going on about car crashes etc when that is not the issue. I am talking about this specific risk of terrorism which is directly related to immigration.
Original post by karl pilkington
This is the fundamental problem with immigration. It seeks to pretend that just because someone was born here that they are exactly the same as someone whose family has been here for a thousand years when their loyalties lie elsewhere.


Why do you presume that someone born here can't be dangerous? Or that they're inherently less dangerous than someone who isn't born here?

You've also failed to address the premise for this thread; that guy poses no greater risk than you do.
I dont think it's the immigration that made us less safe. It is more the incability of societies to help the immigrants to adapt. Growing up in a ghetto doesnt really help you to realise what is good and what is bad.
It is complicated.

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Original post by Drewski
Why do you presume that someone born here can't be dangerous? Or that they're inherently less dangerous than someone who isn't born here?

You've also failed to address the premise for this thread; that guy poses no greater risk than you do.


I haven't presumed that the point is that immigration has made us less safe due to the simple fact that terrorists are 99% from immigrant families. Also the original post is kind of a moot point it wouldn't surprise me if ISIS carry out an attack on this country due to information from British fighter there.
Original post by constantina98
I dont think it's the immigration that made us less safe. It is more the incability of societies to help the immigrants to adapt. Growing up in a ghetto doesnt really help you to realise what is good and what is bad.
It is complicated.

Posted from TSR Mobile


No most choose not to adapt
Original post by karl pilkington
Erm you chose your one death quite conveniently there were scores of people killed in 7/7 plus the number killed overseas in Afghanstan and the number prevented by the security services is not measurable. Also why are you going on about car crashes etc when that is not the issue. I am talking about this specific risk of terrorism which is directly related to immigration.


Even including 7/7, you are talking less than 4 deaths in the UK per year since 9/11. And only one of he 7/7 perpetrators was an immigrant (born in Jamaica), they rest were British born. You can't link deaths in Afghanistan to immigration as it has nothing to do with immigration.

I keep going on about other things because they pose you a real risk. Terrorism, in all probability, does not. In my first post I said the security services and police do an adequate job. They mitigate the risk so that we don't or shouldn't have to worry about it.
Original post by karl pilkington
The news that a British army officer has joined ISIS is kind of sobering but another example of the pitfalls of immigration. With the rise of Islamic terrorism do you think that immigration has made us less safe.


You really are full of invention in your stories.

He isn't and never was a British army officer.

He was trained in the Merchant Navy.

The story has little to do with 'immigration' as such because our armed force training centres often train overseas citizens and they (usually) return to their own forces after training.

Apart from everything being wrong, your thread is 100% accurate. :lol:
Original post by karl pilkington
I haven't presumed that the point is that immigration has made us less safe due to the simple fact that terrorists are 99% from immigrant families. Also the original post is kind of a moot point it wouldn't surprise me if ISIS carry out an attack on this country due to information from British fighter there.


Except that it hasn't.

And that's complete nonsense. ISIS has had British born fighters for a long time and done feck all. This guy knows nothing.

His 'knowledge' of shipping is not a threat. Not even remotely. He knows as much about the Navy as someone who works in an airport WHSmith knows about RAF fighter tactics.

Your thread is, unsurprisingly, as shallow and dim witted as the person you pretend to be.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Drewski
Except that it hasn't.

And that's complete nonsense. ISIS has had British born fighters for a long time and done feck all. This guy knows nothing.

His 'knowledge' of shopping is not a threat. Not even remotely. He knows as much about the Navy as someone who works in an airport WHSmith knows about RAF fighter tactics.

Your thread is, unsurprisingly, as shallow and dim witted as the person you pretend to be.


erm yes it has how else do you explain 7/7 the Lee Rigby killing etc Also it is not just their knowledge. They inspire support and a following in this country. People who live here and have never even been to Syria may carry out an attack. You do realise Jihadi John was born and raised here.
Original post by karl pilkington
erm yes it has how else do you explain 7/7 the Lee Rigby killing etc Also it is not just their knowledge. They inspire support and a following in this country. People who live here and have never even been to Syria may carry out an attack. You do realise Jihadi John was born and raised here.


They also may not.

You cannot prove you are less safe. Therefore your entire thread is incorrect.
In general, no not really. Migrants are as a whole normal people who moved here for a better life, i.e. economic. General migration has been great for the UK, and every other country. Be more specific
Yes partly. Most attacks are from people born in this country to immigrant parents

True home grown terrorists are very few

But then sadly it is only 1 type of immigrant that seems hell bent on causing us issues so I think we can say if they weren't here we wouldn't have the issues we do have with what seems like weekly occurrences of a certain region spreading its 'peace' as only it know how
Original post by Fullofsurprises
You really are full of invention in your stories.

He isn't and never was a British army officer.

He was trained in the Merchant Navy.

The story has little to do with 'immigration' as such because our armed force training centres often train overseas citizens and they (usually) return to their own forces after training.

Apart from everything being wrong, your thread is 100% accurate. :lol:


As I said before the original thread is kind of irrelevant the point is that immigration makes us less safe. If you look at the 7/7 bombers for example they were all from second generation immigrant families so too was one of the glasgow attackers. Most of the people mi6/mi5 investigate would all be from first /second generation immigrant families.
Original post by Drewski
They also may not.

You cannot prove you are less safe. Therefore your entire thread is incorrect.


no I can say that as a matter of fact most terrorist attackers are from immigrant families therefore immigration has made the British people less safe
Original post by karl pilkington
As I said before the original thread is kind of irrelevant


Couldn't have put it better myself.
Original post by karl pilkington
A Kuwaiti born man trained as a British officer in the navy. He has now joined ISIS. His knowledge of the navy means he now poses a security risk to our ships and ports as he understands how they operate. Had he not been an immigrant it would be much less likely that he would have joined ISIS

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3578888/Navy-officer-trained-British-college-joins-ISIS.html


Thanks Karl. I find the subject of immigration bewilderingly complex and alas lack expertise in fields such as politics and policy. I can see why stories such as this give rise to concerns, and I wonder whether it would be more helpful to focus on particular types of immigration or particular immigrants. When I think of immigrants to the UK I tend to think more of young(ish) hard-working people from central and eastern europe, not perhaps the smaller number who go on to join ISIS or take part in terrorism generally. It's an interesting question you pose, though, and I shall read other comments.
Original post by Davide_online
Thanks Karl. I find the subject of immigration bewilderingly complex and alas lack expertise in fields such as politics and policy. I can see why stories such as this give rise to concerns, and I wonder whether it would be more helpful to focus on particular types of immigration or particular immigrants. When I think of immigrants to the UK I tend to think more of young(ish) hard-working people from central and eastern europe, not perhaps the smaller number who go on to join ISIS or take part in terrorism generally. It's an interesting question you pose, though, and I shall read other comments.


It's important to note that his interpretation of this story is massively wrong.

This guy wasn't in the Navy, he won't know anything of importance.
Thanks Drewski; I am getting up-to-date with this thread.
Reply 38
Original post by Quantex
Looking at terrorism...... Off the top of my head, number of Brits killed by Islamic terrorists in the UK:
2016: 0
2015: 0
2014: 0
2013: 1
2012: 0
2011: 0
2010: 0

Which isn't to say that there isn't a risk and there may be a big terrorist attack in the future (our security services and police seem to be doing an adequate job), however the risk needs to be place in context: 30,000 deaths a year are linked to obesity. A Brit is far more likely to die from excessive cake than Islamic terrorism. So, no, I don't believe it has made us much less safe. People just perceive that it has.


Safety isn't just defined as risk of death though is it. We could also include risk of rape and other forms of harrassment. Sweden being a prime example.
Reply 39
Original post by karl pilkington
The news that a British army officer has joined ISIS is kind of sobering but another example of the pitfalls of immigration. With the rise of Islamic terrorism do you think that immigration has made us less safe.


No, immigration hasn't made us less safe. Immigrants are no more likely to commit crime than natives, and the risk of a terrorist attack occurring is incredibly low. Lower than dying in a car accident or slipping in your bathtub, in fact.

On top of that, it brings us numerous benefits. It results in higher GDP per capita and billions of pounds in extra revenue for the government (marginally, between 2001-2011, EU migrants contributed £28.7 billion more than they took, whilst non-EU migrants made a net contribution of £20.5 billion - see table 6). And, most importantly, it results in higher living standards for immigrants themselves.

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