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Pressure

what happens if they let you in and then you realise you are about as intellectual as a potato? what happens then?

It is highly unlikely to happen. HIGHLY unlikely. If your vegetative state is that fundamental, you are unlikely to have been given an offer in the first place. The incomprehensibly vast majority of people given offers have the ability to successfully complete their course, using a combination of clear-headedness and hard work. Promise. :smile:

VERY few people get 3rds or fail, and the majority of those who do do so for one of two reasons - (i) Laziness or (ii) Illness. If you are found to be doing appallingly (manifested in the exams), there will be Words (some combination of Tutor/Director of Studies/Senior Turor or Dean) to find out what's going on. If it's an 'intellectual' issue (say, Special Educational Needs of some kind, or difficulty structuring revision or essays) help will be found - extra supervisions, perhaps, or other aids. In short, if you are struggling academically, help will be given if you're willing to work.

If you fail 'cause you're lazy, that's quite a different matter, and has nothing to do with potatoes. :wink:

You have Nothing To Fear!

Reply 21

epitome

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You are faced with the unpalatable choice between three years of constant struggle for what'll probably end up as a 2:2 (especially in the sciences); and dropping out.

I wouldnt say that working hard for a 2:2 translates as the intellectual capacities of a potato. I'd say that's still pretty damn good.

Further to my last post, by the way, this does differ a little between Arts & Sciences (in some sciences there is a fixed % of people getting each classification [1st/2:1/2:2/3rd] - so those getting 2:2s may not actually be that much worse than those with 2:1s).

Reply 22

epitome

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All those who get 2:2s and 3rds aren't always slackers, drunkards, stonners or nutcases at all. They're often people who shouldn't have been admitted and actually worked bloody hard for their 2:2 or even 3rd.

In fairness, there really aren't that many who get 2:1s/3rds. Really. (Exclude from this fixed-proportion classifications, for obvious reasons).
And that people who work hard for a 2:2 "shouldn't have been admitted" is questionable. Very questionable.

Reply 23

the_alba

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And that people who work hard for a 2:2 "shouldn't have been admitted" is questionable. Very questionable.

Why is it questionable? Oxford and Cambridge expect their students to get Firsts and 2:1s. Part of the assessment process is geared towards judging an applicants potential not to scrape through the degree, or to really struggle intellectually, or to get an average result like a 2:2 because they were not capable of more. They are judging an applicants potential to do well. If they thought for one moment 'this person might get a 2:2 if he / she works for it', that person would not be admitted. It would be unfair on the applicant, for a start.

Reply 24

Isaiah Berlin

4

I think a somewhat dreamy picture is being painted. At least 10% of students get 2:2/3rds - that's over 300 people at Oxford each year. Hardly negligible! Hardly likely to all be entirely due to illness or laziness. Fact is the admissions system, good though it is, is not perfect. Mistakes are made, especially when some subjects have very fewer applicants per place (barely 2:1 for Classics, BioChem etc).

Sometimes people aren't good enough and when that's happen it's desperately sad and not to be dismissed. It's also why people shouldn't look for easy ways into Oxford all the time - the fact is if you do cheat the system, it'll be you who suffers as you struggle to cope.

Reply 25

epitome

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the fact is if you do cheat the system, it'll be you who suffers as you struggle to cope

I completely agree. But there are lots of people who don't feel they're good enough (or suspect they've the intellectual capacities of a potato...) when in reality they ARE.

Oxford and Cambridge expect their students to get Firsts and 2:1s.

Partially true. But every year, as Isaiah helpfully points out, a significant proportion get less. These people are not mistakes. The Oxbridge system is demanding, and not everyone (even if they are very bright) will be able to get that 2:1. Particularly, as I've already mentioned, in the subjects where a set percentage of candidates have to get each classification.

At least 10% of students get 2:2/3rds - that's over 300 people at Oxford each year. Hardly negligible! Hardly likely to all be entirely due to illness or laziness.

Hmm...might have to agree to disagree on this one. 10% of candidates being ill or lazy surely isn't that radical a statement? Of *course* not everyone falls into these two camps, but I continue to venture that most do (though this opinion is only based on my experience/knowledge of the system and people within it - I have no overall statistics).

Reply 26

distributionzero

If you get an AAA offer to cambridge but get AAB is there any chance of still getting in?

Reply 27

Isaiah Berlin

4

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Hmm...might have to agree to disagree on this one. 10% of candidates being ill or lazy surely isn't that radical a statement? Of *course* not everyone falls into these two camps, but I continue to venture that most do (though this opinion is only based on my experience/knowledge of the system and people within it - I have no overall statistics).

Well we don't really disagree, it's just a matter of degree. Clearly at least a few people are admitted who shouldn't be, the question is how many. While I agree the number genuinely incapable of getting a 2:1 even if they work like maniacs probably is small (though not zero), I would guess most on 2:2/3rds don't end up there because they're exceptionally lazy. A bit maybe, but aren't we all? I would guess ability is a very big factor.

Reply 28

Murk

htaylor4

If you get an AAA offer to cambridge but get AAB is there any chance of still getting in?

Unlikely, AFAIK, only people who miss STEP offers and people with serious exceptional circumstances get fished out of the Summer Pool. Consider it motivation to get AAA :wink:

Reply 29

epitome

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If you get an AAA offer to cambridge but get AAB is there any chance of still getting in?

Just assume the answer to this is "no", and work like billy-o to get AAA. Good luck! :smile:

Reply 30

epitome

11

If you get an AAA offer to cambridge but get AAB is there any chance of still getting in?

Just assume the answer to this is "no", and work like billy-o to get AAA. Good luck! :smile:

Reply 31

rebel without a cause

OP

Isaiah Berlin

HardlMistakes are made, especially when some subjects have very fewer applicants per place (barely 2:1 for Classics, BioChem etc).QUOTE]

Hey! I want to do Classics but I admit that one of the main reasons I'm thinking of applying is the favourable statistics....the thing I don't understand is that at other unis there are thousands of applicants for like 20 places but at Oxbridge you have about a 40% chance of getting in. Is there a reason? :confused:

Also, is it true that more boys than girls apply to do Classics? I read it in a book but I think that the man who wrote it was probably talking about a time when hardly any girls went to uni anyway.... :wink:

Reply 32

Huw Davies

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From the ever-useful http://www.admissions.ox.ac.uk/adstats.pdf

122 male vs. 134 female for Classics.

I think people don't apply for Classics at Oxford unless they think themselves quite likely to get in.

Reply 33

ShadowCatz

I'm a potato.

Reply 34

rebel without a cause

OP

So am I but shhhhhhhhhhhhhh..........

Reply 35

ShadowCatz

Uuuuuuuuuuurrrrrrrrrrrgggggggghhhhhhh!!!

Reply 36

Drogue

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In fairness, there really aren't that many who get 2:1s/3rds. Really. (Exclude from this fixed-proportion classifications, for obvious reasons).
And that people who work hard for a 2:2 "shouldn't have been admitted" is questionable. Very questionable.

Really? I've heard that from tutors before. Everyone who's admitted should have the potential to get a 2:1, else they shouldn't be admitted. The fact many don't is due to them not working hard enough, or a few people who were mistakes. I don't know anyone not on course for a 2:1 who hasn't been a bit of a slacker. Isaiah is right that ~10% get 2:2s, but I know far, far more than 10% of students are a bit of a slacker.