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    K, I did give this careful thought to whether or not it should go into discussion but decided the topic was more suited here...

    At school, it is considered way to boffy to start up a conversation about history, so does anyone want to here? I know about Britain, Russia and Germany from the end of the 1800s to 1945ish (basically GCSE work, but I have read around) and would really like it if someone wanted to discuss the finer points of any, for instance,
    Were the liberal refroms really that effective?
    Was the LON a failure purely because of the Wall Street Crash,

    I know these are basic GCSE questions, others can be asked, it is just I could never go into discussion about them becasue my class dont like history that much... anyone want to approah the subject?
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    David Lloyd George said himself that it was merely a step in the right direction.

    The poor membership, stopping trade not working and GB + France having no power were other reasons that the league failed....

    I'd say a lot more if i wasn't watching TV at the moment.
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    The LEague however, also failed because of the greater problems (e.g. Manchuria becasue Japan was part of the League) and because America never joined (woodrow Wilson DID however want them to, it was becuase of a vote by the peeps that ment they couldn't.)
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    I said poor membership, i.e. USA not in, i also said G.B. and France had no power, i.e. couldn't stop Japan or Italy.
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    yeah, okay, I admit, I often hear things and if its not the way I learnt it I will say it in a slightly different way but dont mean to - sorry!
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    You totally forgot the Treaty of Versaille........
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    (Original post by gorien)
    You totally forgot the Treaty of Versaille........
    but didn't that fall apart in 1934/35? when Britain and Germany signed an army navals agreement.
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    Im an AS/A2 student studying history, but where I am it isnt exactly rare to find historical discussions.

    Im sure I have done the essay - 'Why did the LON fail? at least twice - and here the main points that I can remember:

    1) Problems in Composition/Omision

    a) Wilson founded LON with his 14 Points but Congress failed to ratify America's membership due to Hoover's shift towards isolationism

    b) Neither Russia (due to fear of spreading international communism), nor Germany (due to the War Guilt Clause of TofV, and general blame on 'Prussian Militarism') were invited to join the league until later dates.

    c) Some countries, the 'Victors' of WW1, including GB, France, Italy, Japan etc, were provided with disproportionate power within the Council (the most influential organ of the League) - these countries were in a position to exploit these powers, such as the power of veto.

    d) Countries, if condemned by the League, were able to simply leave the LofN - such as Japan, Germany etc - thus ignoring the problem


    2) Problems of Strength/Weakness

    a) The principle of the League was that an injured party would be defended by the League - but the League had little international credibility and no armed force - and was often very slow to act (eg - Erne Earle Drax, reported a year after invasion of Manchuria!)

    b) The economic sanctions, the 2nd action to be taken after condemnation, were often delayed, and sometimes totally ignored by some nations - we failed to cease rubber trading with Japan following Manchurian invasion.

    c) The third action, armed ejection of the agressor, was never used - and was unlikely to have been so as WW1 had left many of the strongest countries weak, in debt, and unwilling to enter into a war that may have morphed into a protracted conflict.

    d) The actions of the League of Nations were undermined by its very proponants - spotting the inherent weaknesses, secret agreements such as the Anglo German Naval Treaty, and Axis agreement, and moves such as the Cordon sanitaire and creation of the Maginot line were set up.

    3) Problems of Time and Place

    a) Europe following WW1 was a politically unstable region, with nationalism, communism, fascism and varying forms of democracy (social democracy such as in France, or Liberalism such as in England - for a detailed, and very longwinded explanation of this read Leubbert's book on the subject) - many regimes were unwilling to act due to condemnation from the League. The Treaty of Versailles and others at Sevre etc exacerbated this problem, with the war guilt clause for Germany, and the 'mutilated victory' in Italy

    b) Economically, prior to 1924 and following October 1929, there was little positive activity. Many countries were weakened, meaning trade sanctions could not be enforced, and the cost of armed conflict unjustifiable whilst men, women and children starved.

    c) The League was confronted with regimes it had not counted upon, psuedo-reglious political movements, or imperial conquest that had stirred up popular opinion in individual countries (eg in Japan, and Italy following invasion of Abysinnia) - and more importantly, amongst the peoples in the supposedly more democratic countries of Britain and France (Hitler was seen, by many, prior to 1937, as a brilliant politician and statesman who had (I must stress this,) APPEARED to right the German economy through Keynsian economic policy - mass public works schemes and increased rather than decreased government expenditure.

    This turned out to be a tad longer than expected, but hope it can spark a bit of debate
 
 
 

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