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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    Both of these could be helped by members reporting posts (and members) as they're posted...that way the posts that NEED to be removed are pinpointed by the members while those that are controversial but actually add to the debates wont be.
    indeed. off-the-bat thread deletion is far too clumsy as we suggested, and Jonatan highlighted in his petition.
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    (Original post by Ollie)
    I do agree with it, I told Vienna that. I don't really see how my support is going to help that thread.
    If the mods act with in the scope of that thread then alot of things would of been avoided
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    If the mods act with in the scope of that thread then alot of things would of been avoided
    finally looks as though a little progress is being made...
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    ok two things
    I would agree that reporting of posts is very important and I would encourage Vienna to add that to the sticky
    but when I said wild moderation, I meant something different, deletion of threads without reason and banning of an siarach was unacceptable, as is allowing members to **** off others continuely behind their backs in an apperently destignated forum
    My point was if the posts that were added to the ends of those threads that expression felt were enough to warrant the hiding of the thread while deleting had been reported then it may have been less work for the mods to pick them out and delete them without the need for the thread to be hidden and the resulting mistakes and tensions with an Siarach.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    If the mods act with in the scope of that thread then alot of things would of been avoided
    This entire situation would have been avoided if Expression had answered our queries as to why the threads had been deleted - we wouldnt have been happy, but i feel we would have accepted his explanation that their deletion was accidental. Instead of doing so he remained silent and chose to ban me, a fairly antagonistic approach i feel.
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    (Original post by Pencil Queen)
    My point was if the posts that were added to the ends of those threads that expression felt were enough to warrant the hiding of the thread while deleting had been reported then it may have been less work for the mods to pick them out and delete them without the need for the thread to be hidden and the resulting mistakes and tensions with an Siarach.
    As discussed previously Expression was wrong to delete those threads.If his intial responce had been to close them then the problem would of been avoided. Hardly any threads are closed in the D+D forum and i think if Mods did that instead of deleting sometimes at least intially it would be an improvement.
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    (Original post by an Siarach)
    This entire situation would have been avoided if Expression had answered our queries as to why the threads had been deleted - we wouldnt have been happy, but i feel we would have accepted his explanation that their deletion was accidental. Instead of doing so he remained silent and chose to ban me, a fairly antagonistic approach i feel.
    Indeed, an awful piece of moderation, from what I have read he did not feel he had to justify himself, however that is very different to telling people what is going on and secoundly I think the mods sometimes on threads of value like that should have to justify themselves.
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    (Original post by an Siarach)
    This entire situation would have been avoided if Expression had answered our queries as to why the threads had been deleted - we wouldnt have been happy, but i feel we would have accepted his explanation that their deletion was accidental. Instead of doing so he remained silent and chose to ban me, a fairly antagonistic approach i feel.
    and then when i requested,under the impression he was 'snowed under' with moderation, that he PM the reason for deletion to either the thread starter or, as i offered, myself, someone could ensure that it was relayed appropriately. rejected flat out.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    Hardly any threads are closed in the D+D forum and i think if Mods did that instead of deleting sometimes at least intially it would be an improvement.
    Agreed

    Or maybe moved to the mods subforum for cleaning if the posts in question need to be removed from public view - if a moved tag was left then it would be more obvious what had happened and it wouldn't be a massive task to move the thread back again afterwards.
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    Plus remember that, as a student forum specifically for those 13 and above, d and the mods have a duty to ensure the content of all the forums is fitting to that remit, whether more mature members mind about this content or not.
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    (Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
    Plus remember that, as a student forum specifically for those 13 and above, d and the mods have a duty to ensure the content of all the forums is fitting to that remit, whether more mature members mind about this content or not.
    that is accepted.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    and then when i requested,under the impression he was 'snowed under' with moderation, that he PM the reason for deletion to either the thread starter or, as i offered, myself, someone could ensure that it was relayed appropriately. rejected flat out.
    Selective with the truth aint we...

    (Original post by Expression (PM))
    What will happen however is that you'll be informed if any major changes (not minor edits for obvious profanity) occur to thread contents, and the reasons behind any deletions, AFTER they occur, so you can relay the reasons where needed - in private to any members concerned. D&D is not about to start getting flooded with deletion reasons requests, any such will be removed; you can deal with that in your PM box.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    As discussed previously Expression was wrong to delete those threads.If his intial responce had been to close them then the problem would of been avoided. Hardly any threads are closed in the D+D forum and i think if Mods did that instead of deleting sometimes at least intially it would be an improvement.

    Have you read anything much of this thread ?

    I've already agreed that I was wrong to delete the threads, but I'd agree further that I was wrong to delete those threads IF deletion of the threads was my intention, but as per previous statement, it wasn't the intention - I'll leave you to find the reference - seems you have a little more reading to do.

    As for proposals re the "cleaning-up" of threads - theres a couple of things:

    If we were simply to hide them for a little bit whilest they were being cleaned (aka Hide & Close) people, especially regular posters, possibly thread subscribers would start worrying that just because they can't see it, must mean the thread has been deleted. So that one isn't practical.

    Closing the thread, leaving a message at the bottom that it's being cleaned and will re-open shortly, seems a more realistic angle to work from, keeps people informed of whats going off - all we don't want though when it's reopened, is people getting annoyed about their post count going down/drop in status/loss of rep etc. I suggest that this be what we work towards in future.

    *Scrolls back*

    Notifications of deletions, as per previously proposed:

    Deletion of a post / small series of posts (<10):

    No notification

    Deletion of a large series of posts (> 10):

    Posted in the thread

    Deletion of a thread (unless blatently obvious; advertising, profanity, etc):

    See previous response to V95; will be posted to thread poster, following PM request from thread poster to moderator. The reason will be CCd to V95.
    Thread deletion reason requests posted on any board will be deleted.
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    (Original post by Expression)
    Have you read anything much of this thread ?
    yes i have read it all and some more
    (Original post by Expression)
    I've already agreed that I was wrong to delete the threads, but I'd agree further that I was wrong to delete those threads IF deletion of the threads was my intention, but as per previous statement, it wasn't the intention - I'll leave you to find the reference - seems you have a little more reading to do.
    We are not sure of your intention however comments like
    (Original post by Expression (on the subject of deleted threads from a week ago))
    **** happens.

    Put it down to alcohol or a messed up day leading to a short fuse; take the rough with the smooth.
    does not paint a good picture
    nor does deleted thread comments like this on an siarach's banning
    (Original post by Expression)
    Learn the UKL netiquette. You've hardly been here long enough to be able to winge like you do.
    and the fact that your moderation in particular has come under criticism in the past

    Having said that I would hope that you did not delebratedly delete them too, however if I my opinion those threads did not need touching at all. The most recent comments were all quite clean from what i could remeber, there was IMO no need to even clean them.
    you also said this
    (Original post by Expression, the first time)
    That would be down to the popularity of the Debate forum, with the quick refreshing of the posts - it becomes impossible to keep up with everything on here, whilest dealing with the rest of the UKL board - and so we rely on a little help from you lot by using the red warning triangle on each post to report a post, so that it brings attention to the thread - otherwise we will assume that all is quite cushy.
    if it is that popular and the work load is too heavy appoint another mod to moderate the D+D form
    (Original post by Expression)
    Closing the thread, leaving a message at the bottom that it's being cleaned and will re-open shortly, seems a more realistic angle to work from, keeps people informed of whats going off - all we don't want though when it's reopened, is people getting annoyed about their post count going down/drop in status/loss of rep etc.
    I am glad you agree on that
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    Geez didn't realise how much hard work the quote tag would bring me when I clicked reply - got to try and piece it together again...

    "Moderation deletion reasons...."

    The original concept of these were mainly so that the mod's could see what was going off - then we got subscribers, and so we had to make them remotely light hearted - they aren't formal statements, there isn't room to go into deep reasons in such a box.

    The point being raised in that particular case was that, as a general rule, for the last year, we've never accepted "Why has my thread been deleted?" threads on the board - and so it was a case of UKL-Netiquette.



    "Don't know your intention..."

    My intention has been previously stated on this thread, and I'll state it once more for your benefit, that it was to tidy up the threads by soft-deleting them, and then restoring them.

    Which is one reason why I've taken on board suggestions, as you've seen, for thread maintainence.


    "Another mod...."

    I'm sure we've been here before - however we have now reacquired the services of edders following the return of him from the States, which will ease the board.

    Over-riding request remains though as it has been since the creation of the board, even in it's less populus days - if someone is causing hassel, swearing persistantly, causing offense, racist/homophobic/sexist/... ist bring it to the attention by PM, preferably with a thread/post(s) to refer to as evidence.

    Bad posts still, as they always have, require the members to report - we don't sit in front of the computer constantly reading through threads looking for problems, we sometimes post on the board ! Other than the blatently obvious stuff, and threads that are likely to cause a flashpoint, some bad natured arguments/posts are well hidden amongst some innocent looking thread titles.

    That said however, with the reduction in the amount of threads that are ending up in the wrong sub-forum nowadays, we have more time to focus on profanity and bad postings.


    And yeah I can't remember the date of the "rough with the smooth" comment, but I expect it was in my exam period somewhere for me to be so rash - seeing as you've referred to it you've probably got the date/number of weeks ago that it was, I'd be interested to know, but I apologise for any offense caused.
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    (Original post by Expression)
    "Moderation deletion reasons...."

    The original concept of these were mainly so that the mod's could see what was going off - then we got subscribers, and so we had to make them remotely light hearted - they aren't formal statements, there isn't room to go into deep reasons in such a box.

    The point being raised in that particular case was that, as a general rule, for the last year, we've never accepted "Why has my thread been deleted?" threads on the board - and so it was a case of UKL-Netiquette.
    Apart from the fact he should never of been banned to start with,
    the point remains you did not tell either an siarach why he had been banned, if he knew he might not of posted the thread
    or any of the other mods, so they couldnt inform him either
    it led to much more confusion than was necessary
    (Original post by Expression)
    "Don't know your intention..."

    My intention has been previously stated on this thread, and I'll state it once more for your benefit, that it was to tidy up the threads by soft-deleting them, and then restoring them.

    Which is one reason why I've taken on board suggestions, as you've seen, for thread maintainence.
    Its good that you are prepared to accept that mistakes have been made and that changes are needed.
    (Original post by Expression)
    "Another mod...."

    I'm sure we've been here before - however we have now reacquired the services of edders following the return of him from the States, which will ease the board.
    I was only replying to your suggestion that you seemed to suggest there was alot of work, i wouldnt know how much work there is and dont claim to
    (Original post by Expression)
    Over-riding request remains though as it has been since the creation of the board, even in it's less populus days - if someone is causing hassel, swearing persistantly, causing offense, racist/homophobic/sexist/... ist bring it to the attention by PM, preferably with a thread/post(s) to refer to as evidence.

    Bad posts still, as they always have, require the members to report - we don't sit in front of the computer constantly reading through threads looking for problems, we sometimes post on the board ! Other than the blatently obvious stuff, and threads that are likely to cause a flashpoint, some bad natured arguments/posts are well hidden amongst some innocent looking thread titles.

    That said however, with the reduction in the amount of threads that are ending up in the wrong sub-forum nowadays, we have more time to focus on profanity and bad postings.
    we try to use the report button and hopefully that instruction will be incorperated into Vienna's sticky which provides excellent guidelines for the D+D forum
    (Original post by Expression)
    And yeah I can't remember the date of the "rough with the smooth" comment, but I expect it was in my exam period somewhere for me to be so rash - seeing as you've referred to it you've probably got the date/number of weeks ago that it was, I'd be interested to know, but I apologise for any offense caused.
    post 11 on the "About me (moved to HSS for the ridicule of Daz)" thread
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    (Original post by Expression)
    Selective with the truth aint we...
    not at all. im pleased to see you pick up on my post before those of Speciez or an Siarach.

    "Vienna,

    Whilest I appriciate your comments, you seem to hold a misconception that you hold any form of authority of the D & D forum, which concerns me somewhat, as from my understanding of your comments, all of a sudden everything we do has to go through you first.
    That ISNT going to happen."

    What will happen however is that you'll be informed if any MAJOR changes (not minor edits for obvious profanity) occur to thread contents, and the reasons behind any deletions, AFTER they occur, so you can relay the reasons where needed - in private to any members concerned. D&D is not about to start getting flooded with deletion reasons requests, any such will be removed; you can deal with that in your PM box.

    What won't happen, is the seeking of your permission.

    .

    And if you have issue with certain comments I have made, then please bring them to light - I've never had a problem answering well structured queries which start with an open mind rather than a stubborn stance.
    bearing in mind the first paragraph and then "What won't happen, is the seeking of your permission" and then "If members have problems with decisions which they can decisively show are mine, I have space in my PM inbox (about 400 more than you) to take questions, rather than through a third party, namely yourself"

    i took the remaining paragraph that you cite to be respective to all those who have threads deleted. apologies if this was not your intention, but that is what i concluded and at the very least you gravely contradict yourself.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    "accident"
    what do you mean by 'accident' :mad:
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    (Original post by Babygal)
    what do you mean by 'accident' :mad:
    ask the person im quoting?
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    ask the person im quoting?

    Might as well whilst I'm here.


    Babygal, the inverted commas I assume refers to Vienna's possible initial belief (I assume anyway), that the deletion of the threads which resulted in this thread being posted, may not have been an accident.

    Although I can't say for certain whether my account of events has changed this perception, I can only reiterate that it was accidental, with the intention of soft deleting the thread to clean up some of the bad posts that had occurred more recently - regrettably I hit the wrong radio button and hit enter, which deleted the thread permanently without possibility of moderator restoration.
 
 
 
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