Turn on thread page Beta

What laws do the Brexiteers want to change? watch

    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    Michael Gove says:

    “Our membership of the EU prevents us being able to change huge swaths of law…”
    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/e7b2d4d4-d...#axzz493llcXli

    We keep hearing these kinds of things from the LEAVE campaign, and how they will rid us of red tape - but no one has anything concrete to say about it.

    I know Gove and other Tories want to get rid of the Human Rights Act, and take the UK out of the European Convention on Human Rights - but that isn't a treaty of the EU anyway.

    While I understand that the EU generates legislation and red tape, I'm not really sure I believe that a standalone UK government with no EU oversight would be any better. Government likes rules and regulation - left to their own devices they seem to generate enough. Look at the measures announced in the Queen's speech:

    Digital Economy Bill
    Modern Transport Bill
    Neighbourhood Planning and Infrastructure Bill
    Local Growth and Jobs Bill
    Better Markets Bill
    Bus Services Bill
    NHS (Overseas Visitors Chanrging) Bill
    Pensions Bill
    Children and Social Work Bill
    Education for All Bill
    Higher Education and Research Bill
    Prison and Courts Reform Bill
    National Citizen Service Bill
    Lifetime Savings Bill
    Finance Bill
    Small Charitable Donations Bill
    Bill of Rights
    Counter-extremism and Safeguarding Bill
    Criminal Finances Bill
    Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill
    Wales Bill

    None of these are imposed by the EU.
    Offline

    15
    Too many bills...
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/

    http://www.cityam.com/assets/uploads...edca135616.png

    http://webarchive.nationalarchives.g...m77-354471.png

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...on_density.svg

    http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/...s/picture1.gif

    http://www.nature.com/scientificamer...0905-48-I2.jpg

    http://www.migrationwatchuk.com/imag...1/figure-1.png

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...y_of_birth.png

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism

    http://www.theatlantic.com/internati...roblem/262171/

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manifest_destiny

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stolen...enocide_debate

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demogr...United_Kingdom

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_London

    Keys points for me. Sort that out and then we can get back to sorting the rest of our country out.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MrControversial)
    So, er, what laws are they?
    Offline

    15
    (Original post by typonaut)
    Michael Gove says:



    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/e7b2d4d4-d...#axzz493llcXli

    We keep hearing these kinds of things from the LEAVE campaign, and how they will rid us of red tape - but no one has anything concrete to say about it.

    I know Gove and other Tories want to get rid of the Human Rights Act, and take the UK out of the European Convention on Human Rights - but that isn't a treaty of the EU anyway.

    While I understand that the EU generates legislation and red tape, I'm not really sure I believe that a standalone UK government with no EU oversight would be any better. Government likes rules and regulation - left to their own devices they seem to generate enough. Look at the measures announced in the Queen's speech:

    Digital Economy Bill
    Modern Transport Bill
    Neighbourhood Planning and Infrastructure Bill
    Local Growth and Jobs Bill
    Better Markets Bill
    Bus Services Bill
    NHS (Overseas Visitors Chanrging) Bill
    Pensions Bill
    Children and Social Work Bill
    Education for All Bill
    Higher Education and Research Bill
    Prison and Courts Reform Bill
    National Citizen Service Bill
    Lifetime Savings Bill
    Finance Bill
    Small Charitable Donations Bill
    Bill of Rights
    Counter-extremism and Safeguarding Bill
    Criminal Finances Bill
    Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill
    Wales Bill

    None of these are imposed by the EU.
    I like the way you have listed them all, one per line, to make the psychological impact greater. Perhaps a more truthful method would have been to compare the number of Laws passed by each.
    Also, you haven't addressed what may be a simple answer over here: perhaps we have more say democratically over the Laws passed in Britain then the ones passed in the EU?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by typonaut)
    So, er, what laws are they?
    The right to have our own country. We can't fix our country when it isn't our country.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MrControversial)
    The right to have our own country. We can't fix our country when it isn't our country.
    But... it is our own country?

    You couldn't even name a single law that we don't get to control, you've just resorted to spouting the usual catchy phrases that don't actually mean anything.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    By my understanding, they really want this "British Bill of Rights" which would entrench our already human rights from the HRA (1998). They don't like the fact that Parliament has in effect delegated some power to the EU in this respect. However I don't personally see what difference it's really going to make - seems pretty drastic.

    Of course the other reason is the immigration bandwagon. Everyone banging on about how our country is being 'invaded' by migrants and acting like the nose of Cornwall is about to dip underwater. They want to leave the EU so that they have more control over who can travel into the UK. However my opinion on this is that we are NOT in a population crisis - despite what Nigel Farage blows out of proportion. Lebanon, yes. In terms of the refugee crisis? Absolutely not. We have barely taken any refugees and our current standing is that we will accept 20,000 over the course of five years - Germany did more than that in a week!

    Also, let's not forget that our culture IS multicultural and the diversity we have brings fabulous variety. We are currently in an NHS crisis with not enough doctors etc, immigration massively helps with this and more! They bring business and jobs despite what the media tells you about the handful of odd jobbies!

    Oh and another reason I don't understand why we would leave the EU.... Aren't importing and exporting costs way cheaper within the network of the EU? We are going to lose money from immigration jobs, have a blow to the purse for forking out on importing/exporting costs.... And who's going to pay for it? Not the rich that's for sure.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by typonaut)
    Michael Gove says:



    http://www.ft.com/cms/s/2/e7b2d4d4-d...#axzz493llcXli

    We keep hearing these kinds of things from the LEAVE campaign, and how they will rid us of red tape - but no one has anything concrete to say about it.

    I know Gove and other Tories want to get rid of the Human Rights Act, and take the UK out of the European Convention on Human Rights - but that isn't a treaty of the EU anyway.

    While I understand that the EU generates legislation and red tape, I'm not really sure I believe that a standalone UK government with no EU oversight would be any better. Government likes rules and regulation - left to their own devices they seem to generate enough. Look at the measures announced in the Queen's speech:

    Digital Economy Bill
    Modern Transport Bill
    Neighbourhood Planning and Infrastructure Bill
    Local Growth and Jobs Bill
    Better Markets Bill
    Bus Services Bill
    NHS (Overseas Visitors Chanrging) Bill
    Pensions Bill
    Children and Social Work Bill
    Education for All Bill
    Higher Education and Research Bill
    Prison and Courts Reform Bill
    National Citizen Service Bill
    Lifetime Savings Bill
    Finance Bill
    Small Charitable Donations Bill
    Bill of Rights
    Counter-extremism and Safeguarding Bill
    Criminal Finances Bill
    Cultural Property (Armed Conflicts) Bill
    Wales Bill

    None of these are imposed by the EU.
    the bills are all needed what are eu bill like curved bananas are not saleable bananas and stuff like that mostly just rubbish that makes no sense to any normal person
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jamesthehustler)
    the bills are all needed what are eu bill like curved bananas are not saleable bananas and stuff like that mostly just rubbish that makes no sense to any normal person
    I believe the curved banana law never really existed. At least not in the way ridiculed by the popular press (who have such a good track record for reporting facts)

    But when you think about some of the EU regulation, it makes perfect sense. If you have a single economy, you have to have rules about what constitutes say chocolate. Otherwise you will get companies creating something cheap and nasty and passing it off as chocolate when it isn't. It is common sense. Leaving the EU won't change that sort of legislation and UK companies selling into the EU will still be bound by the EU courts, just as UK bankers appear to be bound by US courts.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    I believe the curved banana law never really existed. At least not in the way ridiculed by the popular press (who have such a good track record for reporting facts)

    But when you think about some of the EU regulation, it makes perfect sense. If you have a single economy, you have to have rules about what constitutes say chocolate. Otherwise you will get companies creating something cheap and nasty and passing it off as chocolate when it isn't. It is common sense. Leaving the EU won't change that sort of legislation and UK companies selling into the EU will still be bound by the EU courts, just as UK bankers appear to be bound by US courts.
    well there a lot of stupid stuff the eu step up in their favour and our expensive and so we could save the economy before it's all gold bars and carbine rifles
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by EricPiphany)
    I like the way you have listed them all, one per line, to make the psychological impact greater. Perhaps a more truthful method would have been to compare the number of Laws passed by each.
    I just made a list, everyone knows there are 21 bills, there was no intention of attempting to have a psychological impact in the list - just to make them easier to parse. In each of these bills there may be several different laws, or adjustment to laws, I haven't been through each. One part of the Finance Bill, for example, is the levy on sugary drinks.

    Also, you haven't addressed what may be a simple answer over here: perhaps we have more say democratically over the Laws passed in Britain then the ones passed in the EU?
    That's a valid point, but that's not the question I was asking - you could ask that question in a different thread. My point was, if the Brexiteers are saying that there is too much red tape, stifling business and innovation, coming from the EU, then which measures do they seek to remove upon Brexit?
    Offline

    19
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jamesthehustler)
    well there a lot of stupid stuff the eu step up in their favour and our expensive and so we could save the economy before it's all gold bars and carbine rifles
    But it isn't stupid stuff. If you want a common market, you have to have rules that ensure a level playing field. Of course, if we don't want to be part of the common market that is fine, but I reckon most British manufacturers export more goods than they sell in the UK.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by MrControversial)
    The right to have our own country. We can't fix our country when it isn't our country.
    I asked which laws Brexiteers would scrap if the UK votes LEAVE. You have provided links to a load of propaganda that does not address this point. I understand that this is a strategy by the LEAVE campaign, ie don't answer the question, but you won't score any points here using that method.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Louise12307)
    By my understanding, they really want this "British Bill of Rights" which would entrench our already human rights from the HRA (1998). They don't like the fact that Parliament has in effect delegated some power to the EU in this respect. However I don't personally see what difference it's really going to make - seems pretty drastic.
    The HRA stems from the European Convention on Human Rights, it isn't EU legislation, it's a totally separate treaty obligation. Many states in Europe are signatories to the ECHR but not members of the EU. In fact I think I am correct in saying that the only European country that is not a member is Belorussia. Take a look at the map on this page for the obvious hole:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member...ncil_of_Europe
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by jamesthehustler)
    well there a lot of stupid stuff the eu step up in their favour and our expensive and so we could save the economy before it's all gold bars and carbine rifles
    This isn't really an argument that contains any rational points. If you have a specific law, derived from the EU, that you want to see repealed upon Brexit, then please list it. Then we can see the substance of the claim that the Brexiteers make.

    Otherwise you are just using the Boris chorus: "all those Europeans are bananas". Like anyone with any sense thinks he is sane.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by typonaut)
    The HRA stems from the European Convention on Human Rights, it isn't EU legislation, it's a totally separate treaty obligation. Many states in Europe are signatories to the ECHR but not members of the EU. In fact I think I am correct in saying that the only European country that is not a member is Belorussia. Take a look at the map on this page for the obvious hole:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Member...ncil_of_Europe
    Hi, yes I know that it isn't EU legislation. Which is what makes it absurd. But that is what Brexit/ UKIP people are arguing for!
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    The bent banana "laws" were invented by a certain Boris Johnston when he was a journalist.
    he repeatedly made up stories of this nature, and was sacked from two national newspapers for making up untrue quotes
    Offline

    6
    ReputationRep:
    How about immigration and benefits entitlement of immigrants? The UK is legally required to allow free movement of EU nationals and offer the same benefits entitlement as UK citizens on most benefits (with a few exceptions requiring permanent resident status). Given the high net migration figure some people are concerned of the pressure on public services, resources and their effects on the labour market.

    Not saying that I agree (I actually don't overall) but I think these two are pretty obvious examples.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by ByEeek)
    But it isn't stupid stuff. If you want a common market, you have to have rules that ensure a level playing field. Of course, if we don't want to be part of the common market that is fine, but I reckon most British manufacturers export more goods than they sell in the UK.
    maybe it the fact i have aspergers so have a far more rationalised complex mind and can see thing in the long term where the common market will still exist remain makes it the mercedes, versace and rolex will all just leave and not come back and we will do the same when we have rolls royces, mclarens, jaguars, minis, graffs
    to be fair rolex was founded in london for christ sakes
 
 
 
Poll
Is the Big Bang theory correct?
Useful resources

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.