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Do Bremainers really think the EU is democratic? Watch

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    The Eurocrats are unelected, faceless and foriegn. What right do they have to make laws for us?
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    I suspect they're too busy being concerned about the economy to worry about democracy. What does liberty matter when you've got your pay check to think about?
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    I'm undecided (but as of today, swinging towards Leave) and this is a key argument for me.

    I value democracy a lot and the EU is not democratic, or at least, nowhere near as democratic as it should be. I want a direct vote into who leads me, not leaving that decision to the faceless, self-serving, elite few on the European Parliament.
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    If I believed that my constituency was sovereign, David Cameron would be foreign and unelected, As nobody in my constituency voted for him.

    Do you think that most people know who their local councillor is or even what they look like? What about UK policy makers or civil servants?
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    It's not as democratic as it could be, but it also isn't a centralised dictatorship as the Brexiters claim. The commission members are selected by each country's elected govt so it's within the power of the electorate to force changes to the system if they wish it.

    The idea that's peddled about all 27 other members conspiring against Britain in everything they do at EU level is absurd at best.
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    Leavers all seem to be conspiracy theorists.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    If I believed that my constituency was sovereign, David Cameron would be foreign and unelected, As nobody in my constituency voted for him.

    Do you think that most people know who their local councillor is or even what they look like? What about UK policy makers or civil servants?
    Exactly, the running joke in Scotland is that there's more giant pandas(two in Edinburgh Zoo) up there than Tory MP's.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    Leavers all seem to be conspiracy theorists.
    Well, that's not generalising an entire opinion!
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    Well firstly, I don't see why being foreign matters especially as it the European Union. It's straying close to xenophobia and I'll be more worried if the French are being represented by people from Cardiff. Not that I have anything against the people of Cardiff.

    The EU can definitely be improved in terms of democracy and accountability but it is a gross exaggeration to say it isn't democratic. We elect the people who decide which laws are passed and we elect the government who appoint our Commissioner.

    If we get overruled... Tough. That's democracy, the thing that Brexiters want so badly.
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    (Original post by Davij038)
    If I believed that my constituency was sovereign, David Cameron would be foreign and unelected, As nobody in my constituency voted for him.

    Do you think that most people know who their local councillor is or even what they look like? What about UK policy makers or civil servants?
    David Cameron is in some way elected by the people he governs. Can't say the same about the EU. If Cameron pisses me off I can vote for a none Tory MP in my constituency and try and get rid of him as PM. There is no legal democratic way for me to do the same with those as the top of the EU. All I can do is send MEPs which have no where near the same level of power in relation to the government they reside in as do our MPs to the UK government.

    Compared to the UK government stucture the EU is not really democratic. There is no way around that and I don't know why so many democratic "lefties" kid themselves otherwise. I understand why you might like the EU if you are a bit of an authoritarian or Leninist or something, other than the EU essentially enforces neoloberlism :confused:

    Also as someone with anarchist sympathise I can theoretically get along with idea of big decentralisation

    (Original post by TheGuyReturns)
    The Eurocrats are unelected, faceless and foriegn. What right do they have to make laws for us?
    Don't really care about those bits. The unelected bit is the problem. Like Paul Mason said on question time, if the EU was a democracy and worked it would be worth it. But it isn't. The only way I can see a democtic left winger voting to remain is if they think it is possible to make the EU more democratic, see the DiEM25 organisation.


    I may end up voting remain but I think the EU is severely limited in the democracy department.
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    What we always hear is how yes the EU is undemocratic, yes it needs reform to the institutions, yes it needs reform to the CAP, but its better that we are in it using our influence to reform it.

    So why not use our influence to create proper democratic institutions and overturn the CAP, surely its not just Britain who believes these things are badly in need of reform. .
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    (Original post by MagicNMedicine)
    What we always hear is how yes the EU is undemocratic, yes it needs reform to the institutions, yes it needs reform to the CAP, but its better that we are in it using our influence to reform it.

    So why not use our influence to create proper democratic institutions and overturn the CAP, surely its not just Britain who believes these things are badly in need of reform. .
    Do you mean we should stay in the EU and do this or leave and create proper democratic institutions?
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    (Original post by ChaoticButterfly)
    David Cameron is in some way elected by the people he governs. Can't say the same about the EU. If Cameron pisses me off I can not vote for a none Tory MP in my constituency and try and get rid of him. There is no legal democratic way to do the same with those as the top of the EU.
    Sure there is.

    Don't like Juncker? Vote for a non EPP MEP

    Don't like Tusk? Don't vote for a centre-right government.


    Compared to the UK government stucture the EU is not really democratic
    Example?

    Varoufakis has put forward my reasons for voting IN far more eloquently than I can. Reverting back to the nation state will only exacerbate the problems we face in this country, much as they did on the 1930s.
 
 
 
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