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    To start with, I hate English nationalism, hooliganism, racism so I'm not talking about that kind of British pride. I'm talking about being proud of our history.
    What is starting to annoy me is that this is a UK website and we're getting all these ignorant people ****ging off the British (and even more the English) because it's such a politically correct thing to do.

    Some of you people need to get a bit more of their knowledge from book and maybe more serious sources than Hollywood movies.

    The UK was the most powerful country in the world for over a century. So during that time, they managed to do a lot of things. When you're active on the international scene, you're bound to get involved in events that don't please other nations. It doesn't mean you're more evil than any other country. When Britain were bullying other nations, most other countries were slaugtering eachother but because of the small size of these countries, noone really cared.
    Why don't we ever mention the fact that slavery existed in Cuba until 1896 but still go on about how Britain exploited Indian nationals?

    While most other countries (countries which some of the forum members originate from) were still torturing other countries, chopping each others heads of, while the UK was one of the first countries to have a Parliamentarian monarchy, the first European power to abolish slavery (it's in British colonies that the first free slaves settled), one of the first to give workers rights and is recognized as being probably the most stable and oldest democracy in the world.

    So before ****ging off the UK, think about what this country did and then think about what your own country achieved.
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    yeah your right... we also invented Football which has to be worth a mention.

    Now if only we could play it...
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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    To start with, I hate English nationalism, hooliganism, racism so I'm not talking about that kind of British pride. I'm talking about being proud of our history.
    What is starting to annoy me is that this is a UK website and we're getting all these ignorant people ****ging off the British (and even more the English) because it's such a politically correct thing to do.

    Some of you people need to get a bit more of their knowledge from book and maybe more serious sources than Hollywood movies.

    The UK was the most powerful country in the world for over a century. So during that time, they managed to do a lot of things. When you're active on the international scene, you're bound to get involved in events that don't please other nations. It doesn't mean you're more evil than any other country. When Britain were bullying other nations, most other countries were slaugtering eachother but because of the small size of these countries, noone really cared.
    Why don't we ever mention the fact that slavery existed in Cuba until 1896 but still go on about how Britain exploited Indian nationals?

    While most other countries (countries which some of the forum members originate from) were still torturing other countries, chopping each others heads of, while the UK was one of the first countries to have a Parliamentarian monarchy, the first European power to abolish slavery (it's in British colonies that the first free slaves settled), one of the first to give workers rights and is recognized as being probably the most stable and oldest democracy in the world.

    So before ****ging off the UK, think about what this country did and then think about what your own country achieved.
    I don't understand how "pride" can ever be really divorced from "nationalism". And I don't see why it should either.
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    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    To start with, I hate English nationalism, hooliganism, racism so I'm not talking about that kind of British pride. I'm talking about being proud of our history.
    What is starting to annoy me is that this is a UK website and we're getting all these ignorant people ****ging off the British (and even more the English) because it's such a politically correct thing to do.

    Some of you people need to get a bit more of their knowledge from book and maybe more serious sources than Hollywood movies.

    The UK was the most powerful country in the world for over a century. So during that time, they managed to do a lot of things. When you're active on the international scene, you're bound to get involved in events that don't please other nations. It doesn't mean you're more evil than any other country. When Britain were bullying other nations, most other countries were slaugtering eachother but because of the small size of these countries, noone really cared.
    Why don't we ever mention the fact that slavery existed in Cuba until 1896 but still go on about how Britain exploited Indian nationals?

    While most other countries (countries which some of the forum members originate from) were still torturing other countries, chopping each others heads of, while the UK was one of the first countries to have a Parliamentarian monarchy, the first European power to abolish slavery (it's in British colonies that the first free slaves settled), one of the first to give workers rights and is recognized as being probably the most stable and oldest democracy in the world.

    So before ****ging off the UK, think about what this country did and then think about what your own country achieved.
    As the worlds superpower of course more attention is going to be paid to the manner in which the nation conducts itself. It was true for us and now its true for the Americans.

    Basically, the British have shaped this world more than any other people - quite amazing considering our small population size and landmass.

    Our values, system of government and law, our spirit, our language, our technology etc are now the primary dominant ones in the world. One of our children - the USA - dominates the world like no other, and we enjoy a very beneficial partnership with her (even if we are the junior partner). We still have the 7th largest economy in the world (the political parties say 4th, but it actually is 7th), our military forces are really the best in the world in terms of quality, and our independent nuclear submarine force guarantees our protection from any other nation in the world. Politically and militarily we punch far above our weight in the international scheme of things.

    Despite absorbing many millions of alien people (including hundreds of thousands of Muslim males, who really constitute an internal threat to the security of our kingdom) we remain a tolerant, liberal nation (a bit too liberal in certain cases).

    All in all I am very pleased that I was born British.

    We can also add that we had the largest empire ever known to man, that we were the first people ever in recorded history to abolish slavery (and ensure that other nations followed suit - indeed the American Civil War had nothing to do with the issue of slavery, but the Federal Goverment said that it was about freeing the slaves in the South so to prevent the British Empire allying itself with the Confederate South), that we civilised many primitive peoples, we were very kind and liberal rulers of other peoples, and we were the only flicker of light in Europe for over a year during WW2.
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    (Original post by Just an LSE guy)
    the American Civil War had nothing to do with the issue of slavery, but the Federal Goverment said that it was about freeing the slaves in the South so to prevent the British Empire allying itself with the Confederate South)
    i really wouldn't agree with that - it was in part about slavery, but the reason for freeing slaves was not just an opportunistic 'get-out clause' for the US - war between the US and UK would have been a result of the Trent Affair or Alabama case and trade with the South rather than slavery



    (Original post by Just an LSE guy)
    that we civilised many primitive peoples, we were very kind and liberal rulers of other people.

    haah do you like Rudyard Kipling!?!? lol - please dont kid yourself
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    (Original post by an Siarach)
    As the worlds superpower of course more attention is going to be paid to the manner in which the nation conducts itself. It was true for us and now its true for the Americans.
    Very true. That's what I was trying to point out.
    Just like the US: everyone wants to know that the US army killed 2 Iraqi civilians but when Cambodia lost a third of its population, when all the kurds were massacred like animals in Iraq, people really couldn't give a ****.
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    (Original post by Just an LSE guy)
    Basically, the British have shaped this world more than any other people - quite amazing considering our small population size and landmass.

    Our values, system of government and law, our spirit, our language, our technology etc are now the primary dominant ones in the world. One of our children - the USA - dominates the world like no other, and we enjoy a very beneficial partnership with her (even if we are the junior partner). We still have the 7th largest economy in the world (the political parties say 4th, but it actually is 7th), our military forces are really the best in the world in terms of quality, and our independent nuclear submarine force guarantees our protection from any other nation in the world. Politically and militarily we punch far above our weight in the international scheme of things.

    Despite absorbing many millions of alien people (including hundreds of thousands of Muslim males, who really constitute an internal threat to the security of our kingdom) we remain a tolerant, liberal nation (a bit too liberal in certain cases).

    All in all I am very pleased that I was born British.
    We don't have the 4th economy? If you're at LSE, I'm sure you know your stuff but as far as I know, not only the politicans but also the main stat agencies put the UK just behind Germany, with France and Italy just behind.
    So what countries make this classification any different? India and China maybe? Even with them, that would make us 6th...

    No, even Lincoln himself at the beginning of the war said the war had nothing to do with slavery - the idea that it did began after the war had begun to ensure we didn't take part in it, and snow-balled after the war as part of America's mythology.

    Thewar was a dispute as to the interpretation of the constitution - ie the power-balance between the states and the Federal Government.

    And, unless you think Zulu people etc in Africa were civilised you're the one kidding yourself.

    BTW - why do you have a picture of that traitor as your avatar?

    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    We don't have the 4th economy? If you're at LSE, I'm sure you know your stuff but as far as I know, not only the politicans but also the main stat agencies put the UK just behind Germany, with France and Italy just behind.
    So what countries make this classification any different? India and China maybe? Even with them, that would make us 6th...
    India and China have a GDP of 2 trillion each, the UK is about 1 trillion.
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    (Original post by Just an LSE guy)
    No, even Lincoln himself at the beginning of the war said the war had nothing to do with slavery - the idea that it did began after the war had begun to ensure we didn't take part in it, and snow-balled after the war as part of America's mythology.

    Thewar was a dispute as to the interpretation of the constitution - ie the power-balance between the states and the Federal Government.

    And, unless you think Zulu people etc in Africa were civilised you're the one kidding yourself.

    BTW - why do you have a picture of that traitor as your avatar?

    maybe not civilized to westerners, but they have their own traditions which are thousands of years old - so i don't really think your belief holds any ground, maybe for colonial poets of the late 19th century......

    yes - the arguement between the southern states and the more influential northern ones,

    and well yes - he may have been a traitor, but i find him quite interesting

    well, as you're talking of American mythology, you're playing up to the British mythology, that the Empire was a great and wonderful thing which brought happiness to the disgusting natives and non-christians
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    (Original post by Just an LSE guy)
    Basically, the British have shaped this world more than any other people - quite amazing considering our small population size and landmass.

    Our values, system of government and law, our spirit, our language, our technology etc are now the primary dominant ones in the world. One of our children - the USA - dominates the world like no other, and we enjoy a very beneficial partnership with her (even if we are the junior partner). We still have the 7th largest economy in the world (the political parties say 4th, but it actually is 7th), our military forces are really the best in the world in terms of quality, and our independent nuclear submarine force guarantees our protection from any other nation in the world. Politically and militarily we punch far above our weight in the international scheme of things.

    Despite absorbing many millions of alien people (including hundreds of thousands of Muslim males, who really constitute an internal threat to the security of our kingdom) we remain a tolerant, liberal nation (a bit too liberal in certain cases).

    All in all I am very pleased that I was born British.
    I wasn't talking about the fact that Britain "brought civilization" to the rest of the world. I was talking more about everything the UK has done for human rights, whereas it's always been ****ged off as being an evil imperialistic power. When countries have power, they end up using it and of course, it's not always going to be nice.

    If in the 19th century, Britain had given all its power to another nation, do you think that they'd have treated other nations any better?
    They'd be cutting them into pieces, that's what they would have done.
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    (Original post by Just an LSE guy)
    India and China have a GDP of 2 trillion each, the UK is about 1 trillion.
    I had heard of that fact though India and China are very difficult to classify.

    That would still make the UK 6th.

    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    I wasn't talking about the fact that Britain "brought civilization" to the rest of the world. I was talking more about everything the UK has done for human rights, whereas it's always been ****ged off as being an evil imperialistic power. When countries have power, they end up using it and of course, it's not always going to be nice.

    If in the 19th century, Britain had given all its power to another nation, do you think that they'd have treated other nations any better?
    They'd be cutting them into pieces, that's what they would have done.
    Oh exactly - for example, if Germany had ruled India I doubt that there would be any Indians living today!

    (Original post by SamTheMan)
    I had heard of that fact though India and China are very difficult to classify.

    That would still make the UK 6th.
    Alas, France's GDP is slightly higher than ours.

    (Original post by John Paul Jones)
    maybe not civilized to westerners, but they have their own traditions which are thousands of years old - so i don't really think your belief holds any ground, maybe for colonial poets of the late 19th century......

    yes - the arguement between the southern states and the more influential northern ones,

    and well yes - he may have been a traitor, but i find him quite interesting

    well, as you're talking of American mythology, you're playing up to the British mythology, that the Empire was a great and wonderful thing which brought happiness to the disgusting natives and non-christians
    All history is mythology, and this is the one I have.

    And it is illogical at best to say that just because people X had traditions which were thousands of years old that they were, therefore, civilised.

    Indeed, the concept of natural rights is very much an Anglo-Saxon one.
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    (Original post by Just an LSE guy)
    All history is mythology, and this is the one I have.

    And it is illogical at best to say that just because people X had traditions which were thousands of years old that they were, therefore, civilised.

    and who's standard are you judging what is civilized by? your own 21st century standard? or the standard of Victorians?
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    (Original post by John Paul Jones)
    well, as you're talking of American mythology, you're playing up to the British mythology, that the Empire was a great and wonderful thing which brought happiness to the disgusting natives and non-christians
    Indeed, saying that colonialism was a wonderful thing sounds ridiculous but it seems so inevitable. Could it truly have been avoided: several countries had managed to build powers that had never been seen before and as in the past, when one country had more power than its neighbour, it would bash it. Just as Ireland would have inevitably invaded Britain if they had the power.

    But despite all the oppression, do you really think there were no positive aspects to colonialism? Do you think countries like India would be better off if they had never been colonised by the British? I'm not so sure...

    Do you remember a few years ago, there was a small island of the Comoros which asked France to colonise them again because their country had become a complete mess and I believe a few islands in the Pacific were thinking of doing the same thing with the UK.
 
 
 
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