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    Hiya, I have applied to nursing and am thinking about going to Glasgow Caledonian Uni. However they have 2 courses for adult nursing - one with and one without honours.
    Everyone I know currently studying the course is doing the one without honours. I personally would have chosen to do the one with honours as I would have thought doing a further year of education would have put me ahead other candidates when going for a job after graduating.
    Is this the case or is doing an extra year just a waste of time and would I be better trying to find work after my 3rd year?
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    (Original post by vanillaspit)
    Hiya, I have applied to nursing and am thinking about going to Glasgow Caledonian Uni. However they have 2 courses for adult nursing - one with and one without honours.
    Everyone I know currently studying the course is doing the one without honours. I personally would have chosen to do the one with honours as I would have thought doing a further year of education would have put me ahead other candidates when going for a job after graduating.
    Is this the case or is doing an extra year just a waste of time and would I be better trying to find work after my 3rd year?
    Got the links for the courses?
    I can only find the one.
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    (Original post by vanillaspit)
    Hiya, I have applied to nursing and am thinking about going to Glasgow Caledonian Uni. However they have 2 courses for adult nursing - one with and one without honours.
    Everyone I know currently studying the course is doing the one without honours. I personally would have chosen to do the one with honours as I would have thought doing a further year of education would have put me ahead other candidates when going for a job after graduating.
    Is this the case or is doing an extra year just a waste of time and would I be better trying to find work after my 3rd year?
    To be honest - there is such a shortage of nurses you could be a serial killer and they would still take you on.

    My personal opinion is that nurses don't need degrees - there is no substitute for hands on / on the ward learning. Writing silly essays with Harvard referencing does not a good nurse make.

    So basically the answer is - no it will not make a jot of difference
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    (Original post by PC.police)
    That's your opinion, from my 6 years as a Med Student and 4 years as a professional doctor, I can tell you one thing: A honors degree turn you from a peasant to a king. So definitely take the honours, no matter how long it takes you to complete.
    With respect - you are a doctor - that is different.

    A nurse is supposed to be a hands on caring person. No amount of essay writing and university lectures can turn you into a good nurse.


    I trained under the old system and as a senior sister I see the students coming through. At best they are OK, at worst they are horrendous. Standing around with hands in pockets looking gormless. You learn how to be a nurse at the bedside.
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    (Original post by squeakysquirrel)
    With respect - you are a doctor - that is different.

    A nurse is supposed to be a hands on caring person. No amount of essay writing and university lectures can turn you into a good nurse.


    I trained under the old system and as a senior sister I see the students coming through. At best they are OK, at worst they are horrendous. Standing around with hands in pockets looking gormless. You learn how to be a nurse at the bedside.
    Yes. That is true and I can't account for that, at the end see which one suits you better and if it is worth your time.
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    I think 'with honours' just means you do a dissertation (at least that's what it meant for my Biology degree, if you failed your dissertation module you just passed without honours).

    If you think you'd be interested in the more academic side of nursing like research or lecturing then it is useful to do a dissertation because it shows you can do your own research independently and write longer academic pieces.

    I don't think it's particularly important and if you did want to go into a more academic area later in your career you could always do a Masters.

    Hope this helps, good luck with your decision.


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    I have to disagree with honours not being important. It is. I do live a fair distance from you but my local hospital list most of their nursing jobs stating that honours is preferable....automatically putting those with honours Infront of those without it. You have to be a certain type of person to be a nurse but unfortunately that alone will not get you a job. Qualifications do. I'm doing the honours and I don't have to do a dissertation. I just do a specialised module. If I had the option I would of picked honours anyway


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    Sorry also forgot to add that if you want to specialise in the future an honours will be needed (in my trust it is I'm not 100% on others)


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    From my experience, it hasn't made a jot of difference employment-wise. I've had interviews for every job I've applied to and more offers than I know what to do with and I haven't done an honours degree. I'm currently in the position where I've got my pick of the ideal jobs for me and can go pretty much anywhere in the UK. One thing to bear in mind when you're looking at universities is that even some non-honours degrees have a big dissertation-like project which can make you more attractive to employers who have a big emphasis on research, for example, I did a huge quality improvement project which a lot of employers have picked up on.

    At the end of the day, if you are the right person for the job and have gone beyond the requirements of your course (volunteering, societies, involvement in the uni etc.) then you should have no problem getting a job. From what I've seen, the people who struggle to find jobs either are constrained to a small geographical area because of family etc. or have just done the bare minimum amount of work to get through their degrees (honours or not) and aren't standing out amongst other candidates.
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    (Original post by squeakysquirrel)
    With respect - you are a doctor - that is different.

    A nurse is supposed to be a hands on caring person. No amount of essay writing and university lectures can turn you into a good nurse.


    I trained under the old system and as a senior sister I see the students coming through. At best they are OK, at worst they are horrendous. Standing around with hands in pockets looking gormless. You learn how to be a nurse at the bedside.
    Just because someone has a degree or is considered "Academic" does not mean that they cannot be compassionate and have good bedside also. Yes a nurse is supposed to be caring, but they also need great analytical and decision making skills. They need to be able to think critically and pro-actively rather than blindly following a set of instructions from a doctor. They need to be able to provide rationale for the decisions they make.

    I have been a qualified children's nurse for 8 months. I work on the large (32 bed) medical ward in a tertiary centre. We have a few nursery nurses (Band 4s - Assistant Practitioners, basically) who take patients and have been in the role for twenty odd years. They are brilliant at what they do. But the gap between their acute assessment skills, knowledge, quality of documentation, and that of the qualified nurses - even those at around my experience level - is really significant. If nursing should be learnt at the bedside, where will this extra knowledge and skills be obtained? Why, if nursing is already learnt at the bedside are their standards not the same as ours?

    Nursing demands a compassion AND competency. We shouldn't be willing to skimp on the competence/theoretical knowledge, as our patients absolutely deserve both qualities (and more, of course) in a nurse. Patient needs are not getting simpler - with an aging population whose needs continue to grow in complexity, and with more premature babies with complex needs being kept alive, degree trained nurses are most definitely needed.

    If you are not happy with your newly qualified intake, then I woukd feed that back to your recruitment lead and also consider what support is available for your newly qualifieds in the form of preceptorship and supernumerary period etc (It might already be brilliant, I don't know), but I know there are good newly qualifieds out there - because I work with several of them.
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    (Original post by PaediatricStN)
    Just because someone has a degree or is considered "Academic" does not mean that they cannot be compassionate and have good bedside also. Yes a nurse is supposed to be caring, but they also need great analytical and decision making skills. They need to be able to think critically and pro-actively rather than blindly following a set of instructions from a doctor. They need to be able to provide rationale for the decisions they make.

    I have been a qualified children's nurse for 8 months. I work on the large (32 bed) medical ward in a tertiary centre. We have a few nursery nurses (Band 4s - Assistant Practitioners, basically) who take patients and have been in the role for twenty odd years. They are brilliant at what they do. But the gap between their acute assessment skills, knowledge, quality of documentation, and that of the qualified nurses - even those at around my experience level - is really significant. If nursing should be learnt at the bedside, where will this extra knowledge and skills be obtained? Why, if nursing is already learnt at the bedside are their standards not the same as ours?

    Nursing demands a compassion AND competency. We shouldn't be willing to skimp on the competence/theoretical knowledge, as our patients absolutely deserve both qualities (and more, of course) in a nurse. Patient needs are not getting simpler - with an aging population whose needs continue to grow in complexity, and with more premature babies with complex needs being kept alive, degree trained nurses are most definitely needed.

    If you are not happy with your newly qualified intake, then I woukd feed that back to your recruitment lead and also consider what support is available for your newly qualifieds in the form of preceptorship and supernumerary period etc (It might already be brilliant, I don't know), but I know there are good newly qualifieds out there - because I work with several of them.
    We don't always see eye to eye on everything but I do agree with you on this! I am a big advocate of making sure my students learn the importance of good, basic nursing care and that they master it and how important it is to be hand's on. But obviously I do not expect them to be washing and wiping bum's 24/7 either. Student's need to have different learning experiences and to develop a wide range of skills. The nursing profession is advancing and developing whether we like it or not. The nature of our patients are changing as they develop more complex health issues and co-morbidities. New nursing roles are being created all the time, and many of them require you to be trained at degree level to progress further into your career. There is a need for nurses to be degree trained these days. Yes, passing your academic assignments at 80% doesn't make you great at the bedside but whether you like it or not, nurses do need this knowledge to start their careers and progress further into them. For my dissertation I had to write a literature review. When I will ever need to write a literature review in my career I will never know, but there was a point to it. It was to teach you to be mindful of nursing research and how you can apply this to your practice. Keeping your skills and knowledge up to date is an NMC requirement so being able to understand research and journal articles and what it all means is important, because you need to know how valid the research is. Not every nurse is going to be a innovator of new nursing practices, but if we don't change with our patients and we don't keep our knowledge up to date with current nursing evidence then we are going to be failing our patients.

    If students are not cutting the mustard on your ward, then it is your duty as LINE MANAGER, mentor and registered nurse to flag this up to the university and practice development team. It is in your mentor's code to identify a failing student and escalate this accordingly. It is also in your NMC code of conduct to pass on your skills and knowledge to nursing students and report unsafe practice. "Failing to fail" students is a big problem in nursing and many nurses get through their training with nobody flagging up issues only to struggle massively when they qualify. It's very unfair on the student. If they don't know they are not performing well then how can they ever change and improve? Granted, some students have a very bad attitude, ethos and see many nursing tasks as beneath them and it is frustrating. But it your job to ensure that this is flagged up to the university as it is evident that nursing is not the career for them. Many student's are keen and hard working and just need extra help and support to get where they need to be. Some need clear and specific goals and instructions to get them to where they need to be. I have failed students as a mentor and it makes me feel terrible because I feel like I have failed them. But I have only done so after multiple meetings with their PLT and after making numerous action plans. Many of our mentors have flagged up specific issues to the PLT and Placement Support Nurses and changes have been made to newer intakes based on our concerns. So raising those issues are not pointless at all.
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    (Original post by ButterflyRN)
    We don't always see eye to eye on everything but I do agree with you on this! I am a big advocate of making sure my students learn the importance of good, basic nursing care and that they master it and how important it is to be hand's on. But obviously I do not expect them to be washing and wiping bum's 24/7 either. Student's need to have different learning experiences and to develop a wide range of skills. The nursing profession is advancing and developing whether we like it or not. The nature of our patients are changing as they develop more complex health issues and co-morbidities. New nursing roles are being created all the time, and many of them require you to be trained at degree level to progress further into your career. There is a need for nurses to be degree trained these days. Yes, passing your academic assignments at 80% doesn't make you great at the bedside but whether you like it or not, nurses do need this knowledge to start their careers and progress further into them. For my dissertation I had to write a literature review. When I will ever need to write a literature review in my career I will never know, but there was a point to it. It was to teach you to be mindful of nursing research and how you can apply this to your practice. Keeping your skills and knowledge up to date is an NMC requirement so being able to understand research and journal articles and what it all means is important, because you need to know how valid the research is. Not every nurse is going to be a innovator of new nursing practices, but if we don't change with our patients and we don't keep our knowledge up to date with current nursing evidence then we are going to be failing our patients.

    If students are not cutting the mustard on your ward, then it is your duty as LINE MANAGER, mentor and registered nurse to flag this up to the university and practice development team. It is in your mentor's code to identify a failing student and escalate this accordingly. It is also in your NMC code of conduct to pass on your skills and knowledge to nursing students and report unsafe practice. "Failing to fail" students is a big problem in nursing and many nurses get through their training with nobody flagging up issues only to struggle massively when they qualify. It's very unfair on the student. If they don't know they are not performing well then how can they ever change and improve? Granted, some students have a very bad attitude, ethos and see many nursing tasks as beneath them and it is frustrating. But it your job to ensure that this is flagged up to the university as it is evident that nursing is not the career for them. Many student's are keen and hard working and just need extra help and support to get where they need to be. Some need clear and specific goals and instructions to get them to where they need to be. I have failed students as a mentor and it makes me feel terrible because I feel like I have failed them. But I have only done so after multiple meetings with their PLT and after making numerous action plans. Many of our mentors have flagged up specific issues to the PLT and Placement Support Nurses and changes have been made to newer intakes based on our concerns. So raising those issues are not pointless at all.
    As far as I'm aware, the only thing we didn't see eye to eye on, was regarding the negative experiences you have had with the newly qualified nurses on your ward, and how you appeared to translate that to all newly qualifieds everywhere - and I know for a fact that I wasn't alone in my feelings on that topic.

    Other than that one disagreement, all else that I've read from you on here is, in my opinion, very accurate, realistic and helpful, and I think in many ways we do think along the same lines
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    (Original post by ButterflyRN)
    We don't always see eye to eye on everything but I do agree with you on this! I am a big advocate of making sure my students learn the importance of good, basic nursing care and that they master it and how important it is to be hand's on. But obviously I do not expect them to be washing and wiping bum's 24/7 either. Student's need to have different learning experiences and to develop a wide range of skills. The nursing profession is advancing and developing whether we like it or not. The nature of our patients are changing as they develop more complex health issues and co-morbidities. New nursing roles are being created all the time, and many of them require you to be trained at degree level to progress further into your career. There is a need for nurses to be degree trained these days. Yes, passing your academic assignments at 80% doesn't make you great at the bedside but whether you like it or not, nurses do need this knowledge to start their careers and progress further into them. For my dissertation I had to write a literature review. When I will ever need to write a literature review in my career I will never know, but there was a point to it. It was to teach you to be mindful of nursing research and how you can apply this to your practice. Keeping your skills and knowledge up to date is an NMC requirement so being able to understand research and journal articles and what it all means is important, because you need to know how valid the research is. Not every nurse is going to be a innovator of new nursing practices, but if we don't change with our patients and we don't keep our knowledge up to date with current nursing evidence then we are going to be failing our patients.

    If students are not cutting the mustard on your ward, then it is your duty as LINE MANAGER, mentor and registered nurse to flag this up to the university and practice development team. It is in your mentor's code to identify a failing student and escalate this accordingly. It is also in your NMC code of conduct to pass on your skills and knowledge to nursing students and report unsafe practice. "Failing to fail" students is a big problem in nursing and many nurses get through their training with nobody flagging up issues only to struggle massively when they qualify. It's very unfair on the student. If they don't know they are not performing well then how can they ever change and improve? Granted, some students have a very bad attitude, ethos and see many nursing tasks as beneath them and it is frustrating. But it your job to ensure that this is flagged up to the university as it is evident that nursing is not the career for them. Many student's are keen and hard working and just need extra help and support to get where they need to be. Some need clear and specific goals and instructions to get them to where they need to be. I have failed students as a mentor and it makes me feel terrible because I feel like I have failed them. But I have only done so after multiple meetings with their PLT and after making numerous action plans. Many of our mentors have flagged up specific issues to the PLT and Placement Support Nurses and changes have been made to newer intakes based on our concerns. So raising those issues are not pointless at all.
    I love this. I'm a student nurse and I've read that and I now feel the fact I've been sat up till this time with my head in an a&p book and nearly crying about my looming exam, is all justified by your comment alone


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    Hi! I am honours nursing student in Scotland and our system is different to England where majority of the unit there only offer honours. I think being an honours student, mentors seem to push you more and build your confidence quite quickly. If you are looking to not be a staff nurse your whole life then honours is definitely better for moving up the pay scale. Many band 6 specialist nurses roles require an master degree and to do a masters you need an honours. If you do the honours course to start with then decide to leave after 3rd year then you will still have degree (the same as the non honours students). Also at my uni honours students get more holidays


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    Totally agree I was a ward support worker and did more nursing than a lot of graduates there is too much paper work and not enough bedside nursing not the nurses fault they all do a great job it's politics it's the support workers that do all the nursing
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    I'm in Scotland too so doing the 3 year course BN no honours. In terms of normal nursing jobs I don't think it makes a difference personally, my local hospital had 30 posts going when students were applying and only 14 people applied and all gained employment (this is what the hospital told us) and it seems due to understaffing this is a chronic trend - although I believe in certain areas it's a bit harder to get work. My old mentor came here to work for a few years to get experience to work in a bigger city. But in terms of Scotland a lot of us won't do honours.
    I'm considering staying on to do them (my uni offer 25 honours places in year 3) only because I am looking at academic lecturing or applying to medicine in the future and want to leave my options open, as I've been informed I will need honours to progress onto this.
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