why we should vote to leave the EU

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FredOrJohn
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Because if we do they will give us a better deal to stay in (as they have done time and time again whenever any country has a referendum)
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Steelmeat
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(Original post by FredOrJohn)
Because if we do they will give us a better deal to stay in (as they have done time and time again whenever any country has a referendum)
k.....
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FredOrJohn
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(Original post by Steelmeat)
k.....
taking it further, this is how it will go.
Cameron will go.

Boris will take over.
Get a better deal (UK will be a free trade member of EU only).

Referendum two.

Wins.
Job done!
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Steelmeat
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(Original post by FredOrJohn)
taking it further, this is how it will go.
Cameron will go.

Boris will take over.
Get a better deal (UK will be a free trade member of EU only).

Referendum two.

Wins.
Job done!
or y'know we could just stay in?
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FredOrJohn
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(Original post by Steelmeat)
or y'know we could just stay in?
Sure, but if you negotiate letting the other side walk over you, you will not get a good deal.

Its not really about in or out, its about being a UNION and trying to get the best deal for our MEMBERS...

The UK is a UNION and people who live here are members who pay their union dues (taxes).

We should try to get the best deal and if its not good enough STRIKE (vote NO) until we get a better deal.
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BasicMistake
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An interesting idea but a second referendum will not happen unless we vote to remain.
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Vikingninja
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(Original post by FredOrJohn)
taking it further, this is how it will go.
Cameron will go.

Boris will take over.
Get a better deal (UK will be a free trade member of EU only).

Referendum two.

Wins.
Job done!
Except that won't happen because if you want the benefits of being in the EU e.g. free trade you need to also agree to the same stuff as the other members. They aren't going to give free trade to us if we leave because we will not be putting in funding like other countries do.


TL;DR we are basically ****ing the EU over with that one and you don't exactly get an agreement with people which involves ****ing them over.
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Fudge2
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Nah imo the EU would be strict with us if we leave even if it hurts them because they don't want to set a precedent of people being able to leave and bargain for better deals

And access to the single market is only granted if we abide by their rules regarding immigration etc
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FredOrJohn
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(Original post by BasicMistake)
An interesting idea but a second referendum will not happen unless we vote to remain.
Nope. Boris has already half arsed floated the idea of second referendum

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...eferendum-idea

No one is going to say it will happen before the first one is done, but mark my words it will.

Of course all we want is FREE MOVEMENT and FREE TRADE...
All the other stuff is just two bit nonsense.

Vote NO and we'll get just the two we want.
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Trapz99
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That's actually a good idea.
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FredOrJohn
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(Original post by BasicMistake)
An interesting idea but a second referendum will not happen unless we vote to remain.
Take the Scottish Indy referendum. Loads and loads of people voted "YES" to INDY simply to get a better deal from UK parliament - and that is what they have got - a better deal.


Vote NO in this referendum and if it looks like the NO side will win we will get all sorts of extra stuff for the UK - provided the EU still want our money (Which is billions).
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sr90
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What exactly is the plan if we leave the EU?

Vote Leave is that one friend on a night out who insists the club is **** and you should find somewhere else. They convince you to leave but when you ask where you're going now they say "no idea, anywhere is better this", so after walking around town for ages you go back to the place you left which is now full and won't let you back in. So instead of having a good night you end up in Chicken Cottage arguing who is to blame.

4 weeks until the vote and i'm still yet to see one credible argument as to why we should leave. All i'm seeing is a very childish argument from both sides. I'll be voting to remain.
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FredOrJohn
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(Original post by sr90)
What exactly is the plan if we leave the EU?

Vote Leave is that one friend on a night out who insists the club is **** and you should find somewhere else. They convince you to leave but when you ask where you're going now they say "no idea, anywhere is better this", so after walking around town for ages you go back to the place you left which is now full and won't let you back in. So instead of having a good night you end up in Chicken Cottage arguing who is to blame.

4 weeks until the vote and i'm still yet to see one credible argument as to why we should leave. All i'm seeing is a very childish argument from both sides. I'll be voting to remain.
Its not like that at all.
We pay NET billions into the EU.
There will be no walking away.
If we leave, Germany will have to pay billions more.
Its not going to happen.

Put pressure on, by voting "NO".

(you do not actually even need to vote "NO" - you just need the opinion polls to get the "NO" side in front and then we'll start to get better deals coming through).

ps - I say this because of the experience of the Scottish Indy referendum - all the deals came out AFTER the YES to INDY side got in front.
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username1799249
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(Original post by sr90)
What exactly is the plan if we leave the EU?

Vote Leave is that one friend on a night out who insists the club is **** and you should find somewhere else. They convince you to leave but when you ask where you're going now they say "no idea, anywhere is better this", so after walking around town for ages you go back to the place you left which is now full and won't let you back in. So instead of having a good night you end up in Chicken Cottage arguing who is to blame.

4 weeks until the vote and i'm still yet to see one credible argument as to why we should leave. All i'm seeing is a very childish argument from both sides. I'll be voting to remain.
That is brilliant!
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username1799249
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(Original post by FredOrJohn)
Its not like that at all.
We pay NET billions into the EU.
We would still be paying net billions to access the single market if we left. But by contrast we wouldn't get anything back in aid or rebates.

(Original post by FredOrJohn)
If we leave, Germany will have to pay billions more.
Not really. The EU budget will just change slightly.

(Original post by FredOrJohn)
Put pressure on, by voting "NO".
(you do not actually even need to vote "NO" - you just need the opinion polls to get the "NO" side in front and then we'll start to get better deals coming through).
Why take the risk? It is all very well crying wolf until the wolf eats your sheep whilst no one is listening. If the polls start to indicate a No vote, chances are it might come true and we all wake up with a hang over.

(Original post by FredOrJohn)
ps - I say this because of the experience of the Scottish Indy referendum - all the deals came out AFTER the YES to INDY side got in front.
You can't compare the two referendums. The UK had more to lose by Scotland leaving hence the better deal for Scotland post referendum. It is no big deal to the EU if we leave. We still have to pay to access the free market and they get to dictate the rules. Indeed it is probably in their interests not to have that annoying moaning country called Britain making things difficult. As for us - we don't get a better deal (why would we?), we have EU dictating even more to us because we don't get a say and we are out in the cold, as someone said, sitting in Chicken Cottage arguing whose fault it was.
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BasicMistake
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(Original post by FredOrJohn)
Nope. Boris has already half arsed floated the idea of second referendum

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...eferendum-idea

No one is going to say it will happen before the first one is done, but mark my words it will.

Of course all we want is FREE MOVEMENT and FREE TRADE...
All the other stuff is just two bit nonsense.

Vote NO and we'll get just the two we want.
Well if it does happen, the Tory party will rip itself apart.

Boris doesn't care either way as long as he becomes PM but the true anti-EU Conservative MPs will probably stage a revolution if the leadership attempts to reverse Brexit.

If the second referendum happens and we still vote to leave, I expect the Conservative cabinet to be purged of any pro-EU ministers. If we vote to stay the second time round, it is possible that many Tory MPs will defect to UKIP.
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champ_mc99
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Tbh. I'm just gonna flip a coin when I vote.
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FredOrJohn
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(Original post by ByEeek)
You can't compare the two referendums. The UK had more to lose by Scotland leaving hence the better deal for Scotland post referendum. It is no big deal to the EU if we leave. We still have to pay to access the free market and they get to dictate the rules. Indeed it is probably in their interests not to have that annoying moaning country called Britain making things difficult. As for us - we don't get a better deal (why would we?), we have EU dictating even more to us because we don't get a say and we are out in the cold, as someone said, sitting in Chicken Cottage arguing whose fault it was.
I'm afraid your Maths is totally broken. The UK is a miles bigger percentage of the EU than Scotland is of the UK.

UK is 14% of EU, Scotland, at best, is only 5% of UK

Scotland GDP 216 Billion
UK GDP 2.6 Trillion

EU GDP 18 Trillion.
UK GDP 2.6 Trillion.

I'm telling you, the best thing the UK can do is say NO if we want to get a better deal - which I'm pretty sure we can.

The deal Cameron got is rubbish - and remember , before he got it he said "If I don't get a good deal I'll vote to leave" - This is not a good deal - How can anyone with HALF A BRAIN CELL say Cameron got a good deal.
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FredOrJohn
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Germany France and Italy will need to go if the US of EU is to work like the USA or Canada or Australia

I was comparing the UK to USA, Canada, and Australia. The USA has 350 million people and 50 states. That is roughly 6 million people per state. A US (or Australian or Canadian state) is like Scotland, with own law making assemblies and legal codes.

If you divide the UK up into 6 million lumps that equates to 10 state parliaments - we only have two with Law making powers: Scotland and Northern Ireland (Wales has no law making ability).

This means we have a poltical lack of 8 parliaments.

You might think this is not important, but if you look at the list of the top 20 countries (by wealth) they are ALL either SMALL or FEDERATIONS.

You get to near the bottom of the list and you get to the first centralised state - The UK - based on the London elite. As a result, people feel disfranchised and distant from their MP. I believe the UK got too big around about the time we joined the EU and the Miners Strike.

It was about this time that the different "states" within the UK began to pull very different ways.

So what would the 8 states be - Well I think we actually need 9?

I guess - you'd split it North V South:

Cornwall, Wessex, London and Kent (all historic kingdoms) in the south.

In the North:
Lancashire, Yorkshire, Midlands and Northumbria and the swing states of East Anglia and Wales (yeah thats 10 - close enough)

What are your views?
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username1799249
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(Original post by FredOrJohn)
I'm telling you, the best thing the UK can do is say NO if we want to get a better deal - which I'm pretty sure we can.
The reason Cameron didn't get a very good deal, and the reason we won't get a better deal if we look like leaving is because if we get a better deal, everyone in the EU will want a better deal. Either that, or everyone in the EU gets the same deal. And that really isn't going to happen in a month of Sundays.

But I think we underestimate how good we currently have it. Life in the UK right now has never been better in history. Just exactly what are we striving for if right now is terrible?
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