80% of British Muslims...

Think themselves Muslim first and British second. This compares with about 40% in the US. Does anyone think this a problem? The stats were in this week's Economist. I cant find the graph/analysis on the site since the turnover of info on it is so fast. It also said somthing about only around 50% of Muslims thinking women are better treated here (the UK) than in 'the Muslim world'.

Some retired American General, I think hes the Fox News military analyst, also said that it would be perhaps wiser to target Britian given its got so many pissed of Muslims in than places like Iraq. He was obviously being a muppet, but it seems the segregation of the communities is palpable.

It also relates to the question of national identity and the bizarre concept of Britishness. Now ideologically, the idea of a 'Britian day' is a bit pathetic to me. The point of Britishness is that its a constantly moving concept that cant be defined. As a nation we've sort of just progressed and more and more stuff has been poured into the metling pot rather than having specific instances of universal identification (such as the 4th of July). But practically, it looks like somthing needs to be done to put the concept of 'mainstream society' above other ethnic socities and say that this is the one people need to aspire to, or at the very least become part of.

The thing to admire about America is that everyone is so commited, almost unthinkingly commited, to the idea of America. Everyone talks of values, of 'liberty, justice, equality' ect. In reality, you could debate whether America even has these attributes: they had slavery and there was a civil war over stopping it, there's Gwantanamo and so on. But regardless of all this, so many people still genuinely beleive in these values, even if their existance is imaginary, and are thus bound by them. Practically that's good for a nation, but ideologically its a bit flawed. But avoiding segregation and thus genuine social dvisions are highly practical issues. So, do you think we should sacrifise the ideological highground of just letting people be what they want to be and force everyone to be British?

I consider myself many others things before I consider myself British.

I would put a lot of things before 'Britishness'. Not religion, because I'm an atheist, but if that's what people believe, what's wrong with that? I'd be interested to know the number of Roman Catholics who consider themselves RC before British. I suspect it's at least as high.

The reason most Muslims opposed the Iraq war, and campaigned so strongly against it, was precisely because it is a Muslim-majority country, and they felt solidarity with Muslims they percieved as being under attack, even though the majority of British Muslims are not of Arabic descent, still less of Iraqi descent. That's the point, for Muslims, often their religion transcends loyalty to an ethnic group or country.

I consider myself many others things before I consider myself British.

I don't see how it can in any way be seen as a problem.

95% of British Muslims could declare themselves full Al Qaeda members and you wouldn't see it as a problem.

Calm your nerves Jonathan. We can all be civil and tranquil in our debating (unless we are dealing with Neighbours)

How can you be so sure though? There were many who felt it was simply an illegal invasion. Unless of course you have the results of a reputable survey which shows a strong majority opposing the war because it was foreign action on their 'Muslim brothers'.

You make a fair point - I may be wrong about why a disproportionate amount (when compared to the general British population) of British Muslims opposed the war (you're not going to dispute that are you?).

Incidentally, the majority of English people don't consider themselves to be English, but British?