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wiwarin_mir
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Blood & Honour)
The same i class Rape and being a peadophile as the worst crimes a human can commit and under no circumstances can they be justified.
But you fail to take into consideration any of the complexities of this, like the mental state of the abuser.
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Blood & Honour
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#82
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#82
I'd rather murder someone than rape someone
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Blood & Honour
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#83
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#83
Stop making the abuser out the be the victim!
i couldnt give toss about the peado rights!
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tkfmbp
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#84
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#84
(Original post by wiwarin_mir)
I am not saying we should commend the abuser, just help them. Would you count an abuser as a paedophile if they are mentally immature, like an adult that has some kind of mental disability.
yes. Even mental disability is not an excuse to abuse a child. If a child abusing another child is not accepted, then why should it be accepted of an adult who behaves like a child ?

(Original post by an Siarach)
This is a very important point. As a great number of abusers were themselves abused, you have to ask what impact their childhood trauma had on their intellectual and emotional developement.
If your father beats you up as a child, does that give you the right to beat people up your whole life ? No. Why is it different for sex offences?
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Muse
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Jonatan)
Oh my god. Please differ between someone paedophile and someone sexually abusing a child and someone murdering a child. There are ppaedophile people out there who never do anything wrong. Many of them eaven go to get professional help. You cant punish someone for feeling tempted to comit a crime if they never do so. What about all people here who say they want paedophiles to get killed? Should they get executed for murder? Hardly. There is a difference between having a motive and being guilty as charged.
Of course there is, I was referring to abuse. As for professional help, that's quite dubious considering the drug and psychological therapy they have at the moment. Some of the drugs are completely non-selective.
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an Siarach
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#86
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#86
(Original post by tkfmbp)
If your father beats you up as a child, does that give you the right to beat people up your whole life ? No. Why is it different for sex offences?
Who the hell said anything about the sex offenders having a right to offend?
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Howard
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#87
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#87
(Original post by wiwarin_mir)
Since it may be said that paedophilia is caused by some kind of mental illness, should we be treating them as harshly as we are?
Is that true? Is it a mental condition? Are they mad, or are they bad?
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Muse
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#88
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#88
(Original post by wiwarin_mir)
But you fail to take into consideration any of the complexities of this, like the mental state of the abuser.
I would have hoped that the abuser would have been in an unfit mental state in the first place, to act out their fantasies.
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Muse
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#89
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#89
(Original post by Howard)
Is that true? Is it a mental condition? Are they mad, or are they bad?
Hi howard! paedophilia is not classified by the WHO as a mental illness.
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wiwarin_mir
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#90
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#90
(Original post by tkfmbp)
If your father beats you up as a child, does that give you the right to beat people up your whole life ? No. Why is it different for sex offences?
So you are saying that childhood trauma that is suffered by the abuser, whether physical, sexual or mental, should be disregarded, simply because they have abused a child?
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Howard
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#91
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#91
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
Hi howard! paedophilia is not classified by the WHO as a mental illness.
Hi! So, it is an act that is within their control to surpress?
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Jonatan
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#92
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#92
(Original post by timeofyourlife)
Of course there is, I was referring to abuse. As for professional help, that's quite dubious considering the drug and psychological therapy they have at the moment. Some of the drugs are completely non-selective.
I think a large problem in this debate is that people mean different things when they say the p-word.
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Muse
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#93
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#93
(Original post by wiwarin_mir)
So you are saying that childhood trauma that is suffered by the abuser, whether physical, sexual or mental, should be disregarded, simply because they have abused a child?
Your attitude seems a bit too wishy-washy-liberalist...what do you suggest we do? Send them on courses which don't work and release abusers back in to society?
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an Siarach
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#94
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#94
(Original post by wiwarin_mir)
So you are saying that childhood trauma that is suffered by the abuser, whether physical, sexual or mental, should be disregarded, simply because they have abused a child?
I think hes misunderstood what were trying to say. Were not condoning the actions of offenders, or saying they should be treated more leniently, we are merely saying that they should be treated with greater understanding and empathy.
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wiwarin_mir
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#95
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#95
(Original post by Howard)
Hi! So, it is an act that is within their control to surpress?
Just as homosexuality is just an act then, both can be expressed as a particular sexual orientation.
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Jonatan
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#96
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#96
(Original post by Howard)
Hi! So, it is an act that is within their control to surpress?
Not really. A mental ilness has a very precise definition. (see the thread about homosexuality). Merely because they are not considered mad it does not mean they controll their sexuality. So in one way you could say that they can themselves chose not to abuse a child. On the other hand it requires much more self controll than it does for most people.
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Howard
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#97
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(Original post by Jonatan)
I think a large problem in this debate is that people mean different things when they say the p-word.
Quite. I'm sure there are many many many more fantasists out there than there are those that actually act on their fantasies. Are the fantasists guilty of "thought crime"?
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tkfmbp
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#98
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#98
(Original post by an Siarach)
Who the hell said anything about the sex offenders having a right to offend?
My point is, i don't give a flying F**K about the reasons, however deep engrained in the past of the abuser, that they and others use to justify their sick acts. People who truely believe that paedophillies can have mental problems, and as such have an excuse, are being duped. Its no excuse. Abuse is abuse. Get them help. Get them punished. Do something. just don't let them near my kidss.
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Jonatan
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#99
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#99
(Original post by Howard)
Quite. I'm sure there are many many many more fantasists out there than there are those that actually act on their fantasies. Are the fantasists guilty of "thought crime"?
So you have read that book? I think the UN convention on human rights is pretty conclusive on that matter. You are allowed to think whatever you want, but you are not allowed to say or act in a manner that violates the rights of other people.
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Jonatan
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#100
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#100
(Original post by tkfmbp)
My point is, i don't give a flying F**K about the reasons, however deep engrained in the past of the abuser, that they and others use to justify their sick acts. People who truely believe that paedophillies can have mental problems, and as such have an excuse, are being duped. Its no excuse. Abuse is abuse. Get them help. Get them punished. Do something. just don't let them near my kidss.
So you do agree that it could be justififed to sentence them to compulsory treatment rather than prision?
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