Means-tested loans for students with divorced parents

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bullseye1
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Hi, when applying for student loans on the student loans website, if your parents are divorced or separated, do you/they have to provide financial information for both parents?If you live with say, just your dad, do you just provide income details for him, not for your mother?If so, does this give students the chance to potentially score much higher maintenance loans than students with married parents? It is entirely possible that the parent of a student who doesn't reside with them with could earn a high amount each year and give a proportion of their earnings to the other parent for child support, therefore a student with divorced parents wouldn't be in need of a higher loan any more than a student with parents who are together. In other words, this seems kind of unfair? Correct me if i'm wrong, I don't actually know how it works!If it is all correct, haven't the student loans company found a way to rule out playing the system by asking full financial details for how much the parent they don't reside with contributes to them? I know a few people with divorced parents who boast about the huge loans they get that they don't really need, and it seems unfair for people with parents who are together but cannot depend entirely on their parents financially and need bigger loans.
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claireestelle
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(Original post by bullseye1)
Hi, when applying for student loans on the student loans website, if your parents are divorced or separated, do you/they have to provide financial information for both parents?If you live with say, just your dad, do you just provide income details for him, not for your mother?If so, does this give students the chance to potentially score much higher maintenance loans than students with married parents? It is entirely possible that the parent of a student who doesn't reside with them with could earn a high amount each year and give a proportion of their earnings to the other parent for child support, therefore a student with divorced parents wouldn't be in need of a higher loan any more than a student with parents who are together. In other words, this seems kind of unfair? Correct me if i'm wrong, I don't actually know how it works!If it is all correct, haven't the student loans company found a way to rule out playing the system by asking full financial details for how much the parent they don't reside with contributes to them? I know a few people with divorced parents who boast about the huge loans they get that they don't really need, and it seems unfair for people with parents who are together but cannot depend entirely on their parents financially and need bigger loans.
They will just ask for the parent you live with and proof that they are divorced, however child support is included in a parents income and therefore they should be declaring it.
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bullseye1
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(Original post by claireestelle)
They will just ask for the parent you live with and proof that they are divorced, however child support is included in a parents income and therefore they should be declaring it.
I see, so 'child support' is the money the other parent not residing with them is giving their other parent to support them?

Also I know people should declare child support, but I'm pretty many won't if they can get away with it, just to get bigger loans. Is there a way student finance England cracks down on people doing this, because in the past i've know of people who've done this and not been found out and received huge loans when both parents, though separated, gave them plenty of financial support. It seems like if the parent you live with is on low income, then a student could get a huge loans even if their other parents provided them with lots of money in the form of child support, which is very unfair and just dishonest!
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bullseye1
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(Original post by alkaline.)
Thought this said memes n was interested for a sec
lol sorry no 😂
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claireestelle
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(Original post by bullseye1)
I see, so 'child support' is the money the other parent not residing with them is giving their other parent to support them?

Also I know people should declare child support, but I'm pretty many won't if they can get away with it, just to get bigger loans. Is there a way student finance England cracks down on people doing this, because in the past i've know of people who've done this and not been found out and received huge loans when both parents, though separated, gave them plenty of financial support. It seems like if the parent you live with is on low income, then a student could get a huge loans even if their other parents provided them with lots of money in the form of child support, which is very unfair and just dishonest!
Yes it is. I m unsure as to how evidence is asked for of child support though. Although now with the english system no longer having grants, the system is only loans so they'd just end up owing more money if they did get it. I suppose in some situations parents separate and they give no money towards a child, and unfortunately its impossible for them to make the system completely fair reallu.
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bullseye1
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(Original post by claireestelle)
Yes it is. I m unsure as to how evidence is asked for of child support though. Although now with the english system no longer having grants, the system is only loans so they'd just end up owing more money if they did get it. I suppose in some situations parents separate and they give no money towards a child, and unfortunately its impossible for them to make the system completely fair reallu.
I see, and yeah what you said about loans is true, but the government's logic is flawed as this is the case with everyone, everyone has to pay back loans, so why are they means-tested in the first place? If they're paid back, why restrict the amount students are entitled to - again very unfair! And yeah that's a good point, I just thought that considering the government is usually so stingy about student loans, they'd find a way to stop people being dishonest about their parents income to get bigger loans off them.
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claireestelle
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(Original post by bullseye1)
I see, and yeah what you said about loans is true, but the government's logic is flawed as this is the case with everyone, everyone has to pay back loans, so why are they means-tested in the first place? If they're paid back, why restrict the amount students are entitled to - again very unfair! And yeah that's a good point, I just thought that considering the government is usually so stingy about student loans, they'd find a way to stop people being dishonest about their parents income to get bigger loans off them.
The government's logic is flawed on lots of things I m afraid.
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sr90
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And what about all those people who aren't lucky enough to have a divorced parent assisting financially, or even be in contact with them? Not everyone is trying to rinse the system you know. My dad was earning a six figure salary (and probably still is) but disappeared without trace and never gave my mum a penny.

You can never make the student loan system completely fair. Someone will always lose out.
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mliela
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(Original post by sr90)
And what about all those people who aren't lucky enough to have a divorced parent assisting financially, or even be in contact with them? Not everyone is trying to rinse the system you know. My dad was earning a six figure salary (and probably still is) but disappeared without trace and never gave my mum a penny.

You can never make the student loan system completely fair. Someone will always lose out.
That last bit was what I was trying to explain to someone. The system can never be perfect. Also it depends on whether the child support amount was settled in court. If not it's easy to lie about it.
But it would be unfair to use both parents if the student isn't in contact with both. And it'd take to much time and be too intrusive to prove this further.


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Natashadesigner
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i don't think child support is requested, only taxable income. that was the case with my application anyway
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bullseye1
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(Original post by sr90)
And what about all those people who aren't lucky enough to have a divorced parent assisting financially, or even be in contact with them? Not everyone is trying to rinse the system you know. My dad was earning a six figure salary (and probably still is) but disappeared without trace and never gave my mum a penny.

You can never make the student loan system completely fair. Someone will always lose out.
I know not everyone is trying to 'rinse the system' but many are. And I can assure you so many people have parents who are together who are equally as in need of loans, me for example - parents earn over the amount needed for anything more than a minimum loan, but have other dependant children, other financial problems, etc. so they can't lend a penny to me, and my loan entitles me to hardly anything, it doesn't even cover half of what I need to live as a student. And as for the thing about your dad, that is very unfortunate and I know someone who is in the exact same position. If there's anything to take from that, it's if you're going to have kids with someone, it's best to be married or get married to them ASAP to avoid this sort of thing before they scarper!
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bullseye1
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(Original post by claireestelle)
The government's logic is flawed on lots of things I m afraid.
I realise that, but it's surprising to see that they're flawed on something that disadvantages them - if they are so reluctant to hand out loans to students, why not find a way to crack down on people with divorced parents who are knowingly, in a way, cheating the system so they can get bigger loans than others with divorced parents who are honest?

The government doesn't want to hand out loans because they know many people will not pay them back by age 30 and they'll be cleared and have got a proportion of their higher education free from the government - by letting people lie about their parent's incomes, these are more loan repayments they won't get back - makes no sense to me.
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bullseye1
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(Original post by Natashadesigner)
i don't think child support is requested, only taxable income. that was the case with my application anyway
Well there we go - makes it even easier for people to score bigger loans, even if both parents invest plenty of money into them and they're in the exact same financial situation as a person with married parents who can't get a big enough loan.
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Natashadesigner
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(Original post by bullseye1)
Well there we go - makes it even easier for people to score bigger loans, even if both parents invest plenty of money into them and they're in the exact same financial situation as a person with married parents who can't get a big enough loan.
yep definitely agree for wealthy divorced parents! However right now I haven't benefitted from it at all even though the guidelines said I would be eligible. Going to call tomorrow to double check after reading this
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mliela
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(Original post by bullseye1)
I realise that, but it's surprising to see that they're flawed on something that disadvantages them - if they are so reluctant to hand out loans to students, why not find a way to crack down on people with divorced parents who are knowingly, in a way, cheating the system so they can get bigger loans than others with divorced parents who are honest?

The government doesn't want to hand out loans because they know many people will not pay them back by age 30 and they'll be cleared and have got a proportion of their higher education free from the government - by letting people lie about their parent's incomes, these are more loan repayments they won't get back - makes no sense to me.
They can't be bothered. Do you know how many man hours it would take to go through and sort that kind of stuff. Every individual situation is different and the government doesn't want to spend time and money catering to individuals. It would also make the system more invasive. They would need a lot more proof and more details which people don't always want to give. We just have to accept that there will never be a perfect system.

Also it's not written of by age thirty. It's written off after thirty years.


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bullseye1
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(Original post by Natashadesigner)
yep definitely agree for wealthy divorced parents! However right now I haven't benefitted from it at all even though the guidelines said I would be eligible. Going to call tomorrow to double check after reading this
Do that and glad the post helped
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bullseye1
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(Original post by mliela)
They can't be bothered. Do you know how many man hours it would take to go through and sort that kind of stuff. Every individual situation is different and the government doesn't want to spend time and money catering to individuals. It would also make the system more invasive. They would need a lot more proof and more details which people don't always want to give. We just have to accept that there will never be a perfect system.

Also it's not written of by age thirty. It's written off after thirty years.


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I'm pretty sure the time and money it would take would take to put a legal thing in place to declare child support would not outweigh the thousands of pounds given to people with divorced parents who lie or do not disclose how much child support they receive from their other parent. People may not want to give details, but there are plenty of details which they don't want to give that they already have to legally. And yeah that's wrong, but my point still stands - many will not ever repay their loans back.
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mliela
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(Original post by bullseye1)
I'm pretty sure the time and money it would take would take to put a legal thing in place to declare child support would not outweigh the thousands of pounds given to people with divorced parents who lie or do not disclose how much child support they receive from their other parent. People may not want to give details, but there are plenty of details which they don't want to give that they already have to legally. And yeah that's wrong, but my point still stands - many will not ever repay their loans back.
You're forgetting that the money will potentially be paid back as its a loan. It would need a larger workforce and a more complicated system which is too much effort for the government. You have to be realistic. The whole system and process would be extremely long and take too much time. This also doesn't affect as many people as you think it does. Also it's just a fact of life. There will always be people that are highly disadvantaged due to a certain system and those that can use it to their benefit.


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bullseye1
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(Original post by mliela)
You're forgetting that the money will potentially be paid back as its a loan. It would need a larger workforce and a more complicated system which is too much effort for the government. You have to be realistic. The whole system and process would be extremely long and take too much time. This also doesn't affect as many people as you think it does. Also it's just a fact of life. There will always be people that are highly disadvantaged due to a certain system and those that can use it to their benefit.


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All I'm saying is that they don't need to change the system, they need to enforce it. People easily get around it to get huge loans that they shouldn't be entitled to by being dishonest - why even have a system if part of it isn't implemented. It isn't a fact of life, many 'systems' work properly to avoid this sort of thing, this one doesn't.
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mliela
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(Original post by bullseye1)
All I'm saying is that they don't need to change the system, they need to enforce it. People easily get around it to get huge loans that they shouldn't be entitled to by being dishonest - why even have a system if part of it isn't implemented. It isn't a fact of life, many 'systems' work properly to avoid this sort of thing, this one doesn't.
There are always loopholes in every system. You just have to accept that it can never be perfect.
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