Clarification on EU referendum and ending remain scaremongering! Watch

Sebastian Bartlett
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There seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about June 23rd. Here are some:

- You are not voting to leave NATO, meaning our security agreements remain unchanged.

- You are not voting to leave the UN, G8 or G20, meaning Britain will have the same voice on the world stage as it does today.

- You are not voting to leave Europe!! The UK will still, geographically, be part of Europe. Non political organisations aligned to Europe will still extend membership to the UK (I.e. sports governing bodies, and so on).

- You are not voting to stop recognising Interpol, Europol and neither are you voting for SIS / MI6 to stop dealing with other intelligence services in the fight against terrorism and global, organised crime.

- You are not voting against being able to travel to Europe, contrary to the belief of some fools recently on TV. The UK has always maintained stricter border and passport controls than many EU members. This will not change. You will still use a passport to go on holiday and you will still be allowed entry to countries in Europe. Many non EU countries also have visa free travel within the EU.

- Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.

- Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.

- You are not voting against human rights. The EU Convention on, and European Court of Human Rights are not part of the EU. Until parliament passes a new bill of rights for the UK, these will still apply, as will precedents already passed down to UK courts from Brussels.

- You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect.

- You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!

What you are voting for is UK sovereignty. You are voting to stay in or leave a political union of leaders and representatives that you did not elect. You are voting against a commission of unelected, elite men that nobody at all voted for and yet they make decisions on our behalf. You are simply voting to bring sovereignty back to Westminster, and that is all. If you worry about that because you don't like the Conservative government, look at the reality. Their majority in parliament is very slim. They have been blocked on big decisions already. You are therefore not giving sovereignty to David Cameron, but to the UK House of elected representatives. Do not be fooled by the fear campaigns that are simply run by the wealthy, who need EU money to thrive! Think about the future, and your family's future
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Hachik0
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Stronger Within Europe they say! :facepalm:

We've always been apart of Europe and shall be if we decide to leave the EU. Let me spell it out for those to dumb to understand. European Union is not, i repeat, not Europe.
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DorianGrayism
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(Original post by Sebastian Bartlett)




- Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.

- Farming will not lose money because of EU funding being cut. The UK negotiated a rebate of some monies that the UK pays to the EU, in order to subsidise UK farmers. Instead of asking for our money back, we can give it straight to farmers. No change there.


- You are not voting to kick anyone out of the UK or block access to anyone. Neither are you voting to stop recruiting valuable European workers into things like the NHS. Like my other point about passports for travel, the UK is already outside of the Schengen zone and so migrant workers must enter the UK with a valid passport before and after June 23rd. That will not change. British borders maintain full control of who comes and goes. Should someone have the skills to apply to work in the NHS, then they will still be permitted travel and given an opportunity to apply for a job. Worst case, points based assessment, like the US, Canada and Australia use, will come into effect.

- You are not voting to move jobs nor production out of the UK! The EU actually helped fund the move of Ford Transit production from the UK to Turkey... Yes, the EU helped give UK jobs to people in Turkey by giving Ford a loan of £80m with very generous terms!

Like most Brexit Arguments, full of nonsense to distract people.

Has anyone even talked about leaving NATO, the UN, G20 and etc? You list so many organisations, that I am surprised you didn't mention FIFA or EURO 2016.

With regards to farming. It costs about 3 billion a year to subsidise them. So that means any savings from leaving the EU are automatically lost on it. In other words.....it won't save the UK any money.

So, if you spend all the money on Farming, there will be no money for research and etc.

Gove and Johnson, have already said that EU workers would lose their right to stay in a Brexit. So, they plan to kick them out.
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Davij038
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Brexit is like the rapture for morons.



I'll debunk most of this properly later, in the meantime though one of the most noticeable points is the massive funding shortfall- to the tune of 111 billion.

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57...fe7?edition=uk

You are not voting on any of those things directly but like it or not, there will be consequences- that's why our allies and institutions our warning us.
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sleepysnooze
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(Original post by DorianGrayism)
With regards to farming. It costs about 3 billion a year to subsidise them. So that means any savings from leaving the EU are automatically lost on it. In other words.....it won't save the UK any money.
um, so when *are* we going to stop subsidising inefficient farms all over europe with sterling...? and are you really saying that we'll lose *long term* by losing on this matter? surely if we left the EU, on this farming issue (assuming you're telling me it somehow benefits us) we'll only lose out one time and then continue to gain from the absence of protectionism, right? because obviously protectionism is anti-competition, right? yes? just like the EU altogether in a global context?
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Sebastian Bartlett
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(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Like most Brexit Arguments, full of nonsense to distract people.

Has anyone even talked about leaving NATO, the UN, G20 and etc? You list so many organisations, that I am surprised you didn't mention FIFA or EURO 2016.

With regards to farming. It costs about 3 billion a year to subsidise them. So that means any savings from leaving the EU are automatically lost on it. In other words.....it won't save the UK any money.

So, if you spend all the money on Farming, there will be no money for research and etc.

Gove and Johnson, have already said that EU workers would lose their right to stay in a Brexit. So, they plan to kick them out.
This is a clarification point and many do think we are leaving those organisations or need reminding they even exist.

All I mention is maintaining current subsidies which is already all British money just distributed by the EU so maintaining it wouldn't increase any costs. Also our total budget to EU is around £13.5 billion and net around £9 billion so plenty left over.

Final point is just you ignoring my point by creating lies.

You have completely missed the point of this entire thread and your arguments are invalid, wrong or just lies like most of remains points. If you are not a troll you seriously need to go and do some basic research and learn the truth before you cast a vote.
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DorianGrayism
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(Original post by sleepysnooze)
um, so when *are* we going to stop subsidising inefficient farms all over europe with sterling...? and are you really saying that we'll lose *long term* by losing on this matter? surely if we left the EU, on this farming issue (assuming you're telling me it somehow benefits us) we'll only lose out one time and then continue to gain from the absence of protectionism, right?
Don't argue with me. Argue with your Brexit friend. He is the one claiming that farms are important enough to subsidise.

I just pointed out that the argument was false.
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Sebastian Bartlett
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(Original post by Davij038)
Brexit is like the rapture for morons.



I'll debunk most of this properly later, in the meantime though one of the most noticeable points is the massive funding shortfall- to the tune of 111 billion.

http://m.huffpost.com/uk/entry/uk_57...fe7?edition=uk

You are not voting on any of those things directly but like it or not, there will be consequences- that's why our allies and institutions our warning us.
And you are an example of the type of person this post proves wrong. You are ignoring the facts and coming up with scaremongering rubbish. You won't be able to debunk any of it and please stop acting so cocky and condescending as it is extremely counter productive and pushes more to leave, So actually please keep doing it.
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sleepysnooze
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(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Don't argue with me. Argue with your Brexit friend. He is the one claiming that farms are important enough to subsidise.

I just pointed out that the argument was false.
well to be honest, your message *was* explicitly what I was talking about based on your views of "losing out" on farming subsidies-based matters but whatever
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Sebastian Bartlett
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(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Don't argue with me. Argue with your Brexit friend. He is the one claiming that farms are important enough to subsidise.

I just pointed out that the argument was false.
Nope wrong again. Didn't say it was worth subsiding but pointed out we could easily maintain the subsidies and no you didn't prove that point false. Please don't sound so stupid
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EuanF
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(Original post by Sebastian Bartlett)
- Medical and science research will not simply stop. The UK pays into the EU to then get money back in the form of funding. The UK will now be in control of this money and can choose to fund whatever UK based medical, science, art or other research it chooses.
Little bit of clarification.

European science funding will still continue because like many of the European things we enjoy, it is not an EU thing (like the Remain camp is trying to make it out as.)

Same goes for the ECHR and EHIC.
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Sebastian Bartlett
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(Original post by EuanF)
Little bit of clarification.

European science funding will still continue because like many of the European things we enjoy, it is not an EU thing (like the Remain camp is trying to make it out as.)

Same goes for the ECHR and EHIC.
Not all science funding is from outside the EU but your point is very valid. Thank you
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DorianGrayism
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(Original post by Sebastian Bartlett)
Nope wrong again. Didn't say it was worth subsiding but pointed out we could easily maintain the subsidies and no you didn't prove that point false. Please don't sound so stupid
So, he doesn't support the subsidy but he wants to show everyone that they can be maintained. You should tell the farmers that.

Hey guys, we can afford the subsidies but we don't want to subsidise you anyway.

That makes sense.

Anyway, still has nothing to do with what I said either way.
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Sebastian Bartlett
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(Original post by DorianGrayism)
So, he doesn't support the subsidy but he wants to show everyone that they can be maintained. You should tell the farmers that.

Hey guys, we can afford the subsidies but we don't want to subsidise you anyway.

That makes sense.

Anyway, still has nothing to do with what I said either way.
Nope stop turning it around. All your points have been wrong or invalid. So move along troll or maybe try and understand what someone is saying as clearly you are not.
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Davij038
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(Original post by Sebastian Bartlett)
And you are an example of the type of person this post proves wrong. You are ignoring the facts and coming up with scaremongering rubbish. You won't be able to debunk any of it and
Cool story bro

I don't need to debunk any of it- all the things you mentioned NATO, most of the G20, our scientists, etc etc have already outlined why leaving the EU would be a bad decision.

And all that Vote Leave can do is whine in the Mail/ Telegraph/ Sum/ Express about powerful elites scaring people (whilst at the same time peddling garbage-)


please stop acting so cocky and condescending as it is extremely counter productive and pushes more to leave, So actually please keep doing it.
You can't even come to a clear position on what line of argument I should take.
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DorianGrayism
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(Original post by Sebastian Bartlett)
Nope stop turning it around. All your points have been wrong or invalid. So move along troll or maybe try and understand what someone is saying as clearly you are not.
Lol. Not by you.
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ODES_PDES
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I am poor so I will vote out!
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DorianGrayism
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(Original post by ODES_PDES)
I am poor so I will vote out!
Lol. Why? You expect wages to rise after all the Polish leave?
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ODES_PDES
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(Original post by DorianGrayism)
Lol. Why? You expect wages to rise after all the Polish leave?
No but the house prices might crash
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DorianGrayism
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(Original post by ODES_PDES)
No but the house prices might crash
Yeh, because the last one in 2008 wasn't too bad.
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