Leaving the EU would be like breaking a vow.....

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FredOrJohn
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#1
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#1
We as a nation voted for the EEC in a referendum. We, as a nation, at that time knew that this was more than an Economic Treaty , it was a plan to build a united europe.

To back out now would be akin of breaking a sacred vow - the vow of the sacred democratic ballot box.

67% of the nation voted YES to the EEC.

There is no abuse, we went in with our eyes open.

If you want a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD for trade, one has to have free movement. Poor countries, like poor counties have to be helped to get to the average EU level of wealth.

One cannot complain, Ireland (geographically part of the British Isles) was really poor before 1975 now, thanks to mainly German money its well to do and posh. In a sense, the UK should have paid to make Ireland as rich as the rest of the British Isles as we abused the place for so long - but the Germans did it. Thank you Germany for doing the right thing when we in the UK turned our collective backs on the poor in Ireland.

Now are we going to turn our backs again on the poor of other nations or are we going to do the right thing and stick by our sacred vow to be good brothers and sisters to the wider communities across the seas and fiords.

I think its provably true that doing good does you good.

Can you honestly say that voting NO is a good thing to do for the world at large?

A vote NO is akin of adultery and with-holding cash from your wife and children who are being kicked out of the house and into the gutter so you can house your new mistress.
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Platopus
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#2
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#2
(Original post by FredOrJohn)
and a sin
Well, it would be more like a divorce really...
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FredOrJohn
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#3
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#3
(Original post by Platopus)
Well, it would be more like a divorce really...
A divorce where you would be kicking your wife and kids out of the house without a penny and making room for your new mistress who has all the PhDs and exams that you need to run our coffee shops.

Its the morality of the gutter
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TheIr0nDuke
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(Original post by FredOrJohn)
We as a nation voted for the EEC in a referendum. We, as a nation, at that time knew that this was more than an Economic Treaty , it was a plan to build a united europe.

To back out now would be akin of breaking a sacred vow - the vow of the sacred democratic ballot box.

67% of the nation voted YES to the EEC.

There is no abuse, we went in with our eyes open.

If you want a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD for trade, one has to have free movement. Poor countries, like poor counties have to be helped to get to the average EU level of wealth.

One cannot complain, Ireland (geographically part of the British Isles) was really poor before 1975 now, thanks to mainly German money its well to do and posh. In a sense, the UK should have paid to make Ireland as rich as the rest of the British Isles as we abused the place for so long - but the Germans did it. Thank you Germany for doing the right thing when we in the UK turned our collective backs on the poor in Ireland.

Now are we going to turn our backs again on the poor of other nations or are we going to do the right thing and stick by our sacred vow to be good brothers and sisters to the wider communities across the seas and fiords.

I think its provably true that doing good does you good.

Can you honestly say that voting NO is a good thing to do for the world at large?

A vote NO is akin of adultery and with-holding cash from your wife and children who are being kicked out of the house and into the gutter so you can house your new mistress.
The UK had no idea the EEC would become a bureaucratic, federalist super state. The people who voted to join the EEC are actually much more likely to be in the leave camp.

Why should we care about poor countries? Why don't we take in a few billion of the worlds poor and see if that magically fixes everything? It's just not feasible. Britain isn't built for the population it currently has, thanks to mass immigration.

Vote leave for sovereignty, border control and democracy.
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Platopus
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(Original post by FredOrJohn)
A divorce where you would be kicking your wife and kids out of the house without a penny and making room for your new mistress who has all the PhDs and exams that you need to run our coffee shops.

Its the morality of the gutter
Got some nice metaphors and emotive language going there. Personally, I am tired of remain AND leave trying to make this a moral issue. As a potential voter, I feel manipulated.
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FredOrJohn
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#6
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#6
(Original post by Platopus)
Got some nice metaphors and emotive language going there. Personally, I am tired of remain AND leave trying to make this a moral issue. As a potential voter, I feel manipulated.
I've gone thru all the treads here and I find just a couple on morality.
Most are economic, political, nationalism, racism, migration, over population

I think I might have hit a nerve.
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FredOrJohn
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#7
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#7
(Original post by TheIr0nDuke)
The UK had no idea the EEC would become a bureaucratic, federalist super state. The people who voted to join the EEC are actually much more likely to be in the leave camp.

Why should we care about poor countries? Why don't we take in a few billion of the worlds poor and see if that magically fixes everything? It's just not feasible. Britain isn't built for the population it currently has, thanks to mass immigration.

Vote leave for sovereignty, border control and democracy.
Bureaucratic - YOU MUST BE HAVING A LAUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you have that back to front

In 1975-ish we (the UK) had about 800,000 UK CIVIL SERVANTS....

At least try and make rational sense.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...d-in-10-charts
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TheIr0nDuke
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#8
(Original post by FredOrJohn)
Bureaucratic - YOU MUST BE HAVING A LAUGH!!!!!!!!!!!!!

you have that back to front

In 1975-ish we (the UK) had about 800,000 UK CIVIL SERVANTS....

At least try and make rational sense.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...d-in-10-charts
A pitiful attempt. Everyone knows that the EU is bureaucratic to it's core. The amount of civil servants doesn't make a governing body more bureaucratic, actions do.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...mpaigners.html

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4053/eu-regulations

(Original post by FredOrJohn)
I've gone thru all the treads here and I find just a couple on morality.
Most are economic, political, nationalism, racism, migration, over population

I think I might have hit a nerve.
What's wrong with nationalism?
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FredOrJohn
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#9
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#9
(Original post by TheIr0nDuke)
A pitiful attempt. Everyone knows that the EU is bureaucratic to it's core. The amount of civil servants doesn't make a governing body more bureaucratic, actions do.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...mpaigners.html

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4053/eu-regulations
Actually I worked for the EU's bureaucractic arm - ECHA for a while (its in Finland). Its an English speaking site, its fully open to the public (the stuff that is allowed to be sold into the EU is controlled here - in a central location - but web access for all. It controls the danger labels you see on bottles but that is the tip of the iceberg. Its really cheap compared to 30 countries all having to do their own thing.

It would be nonsense to turn the clock back so that we all did this. Bonkers. Really cloud cockloo-land. I sort of know as I worked in the place.

http://echa.europa.eu/

(go to the site - about the first thing you will notice is "PUBLIC CONSULTATION" ). There are no army of beaurocrats, or weirdness that you go on about. Just people doing stuff in English for English people and everyone else, cheaply an efficiently. -
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JamesN88
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#10
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#10
Nice trolling from a Brexiter FredOrJohn

Bored are we?
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TheIr0nDuke
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#11
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#11
(Original post by FredOrJohn)
Actually I worked for the EU's bureaucractic arm - ECHA for a while (its in Finland). Its an English speaking site, its fully open to the public (the stuff that is allowed to be sold into the EU is controlled here - in a central location - but web access for all. It controls the danger labels you see on bottles but that is the tip of the iceberg. Its really cheap compared to 30 countries all having to do their own thing.

It would be nonsense to turn the clock back so that we all did this. Bonkers. Really cloud cockloo-land. I sort of know as I worked in the place.

http://echa.europa.eu/

(go to the site - about the first thing you will notice is "PUBLIC CONSULTATION" ). There are no army of beaurocrats, or weirdness that you go on about. Just people doing stuff in English for English people and everyone else, cheaply an efficiently. -
That's still not a reason for staying in. How about the fact that the EU is undemocratic, overrides sovereignty, has changed Britain forever with its mass immigration policies?

Bureacracy is the tip of the iceberg in terms of reasons for leaving.
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Underscore__
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#12
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#12
(Original post by FredOrJohn)
We as a nation voted for the EEC in a referendum. We, as a nation, at that time knew that this was more than an Economic Treaty , it was a plan to build a united europe.

To back out now would be akin of breaking a sacred vow - the vow of the sacred democratic ballot box.

67% of the nation voted YES to the EEC.

There is no abuse, we went in with our eyes open.

If you want a LEVEL PLAYING FIELD for trade, one has to have free movement. Poor countries, like poor counties have to be helped to get to the average EU level of wealth.

One cannot complain, Ireland (geographically part of the British Isles) was really poor before 1975 now, thanks to mainly German money its well to do and posh. In a sense, the UK should have paid to make Ireland as rich as the rest of the British Isles as we abused the place for so long - but the Germans did it. Thank you Germany for doing the right thing when we in the UK turned our collective backs on the poor in Ireland.

Now are we going to turn our backs again on the poor of other nations or are we going to do the right thing and stick by our sacred vow to be good brothers and sisters to the wider communities across the seas and fiords.

I think its provably true that doing good does you good.

Can you honestly say that voting NO is a good thing to do for the world at large?

A vote NO is akin of adultery and with-holding cash from your wife and children who are being kicked out of the house and into the gutter so you can house your new mistress.
There's noting wrong with voting no. Most of todays electorate did not vote to join the EU and even if they did it'd simply be changing their mind.

Ireland is not 'well to do and posh' I don't know where you've been visiting.

Your analogy doesn't really work to be honest


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Platopus
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#13
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#13
(Original post by FredOrJohn)
I've gone thru all the treads here and I find just a couple on morality.
Most are economic, political, nationalism, racism, migration, over population

I think I might have hit a nerve.
Erm... Do you watch the news?
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FredOrJohn
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#14
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#14
(Original post by JamesN88)
Nice trolling from a Brexiter FredOrJohn

Bored are we?
Glad you notice that, thanks.
Yes I like to see myself as an open minded True Brit, a tad eccentric perhaps, but nevertheless someone with their heart in the right place.

I'm not really a Brexiter, although I like to see both sides.

What I want out of life from politics for me and my friends and family it would be:

1) More free movement. I would like the EU to try and arrange trade deals in such away that it would be easier for a Brit to get jobs in the USA or Canada or Australia or Japan or South Korea or West Indies or New Zealand.

2) I would like to be richer. I would like the EU to invest heavily into more infrastructure and technology - to match anything that is going on in California. We need our own EU google and chrome. Yes I know OPERA was a start but it did not work too well.

3) the end of the islam problem. I would like the EU to incorporate Turkey and eventually the entire middle east and northern african states. We need to normalise the Islamic religion and the EU can achieve it. Fundamentally islam is a wishy washy belief in god with outfits and dietary requirements - it can be normalised. I'm hoping the Tunisia experiment with democracy amounts to something and that Tunisia and Israel will both join the EU hand in hand together.
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FredOrJohn
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#15
(Original post by Underscore__)
There's noting wrong with voting no. Most of todays electorate did not vote to join the EU and even if they did it'd simply be changing their mind.

Ireland is not 'well to do and posh' I don't know where you've been visiting.

Your analogy doesn't really work to be honest


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Ireland has a higher GDP per capita than the UK.
Ireland $50,000
UK $41,000

So Ireland is posh by UK standards - 20% posher, thanks to German money.
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Duncan2012
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#16
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#16
There's so much nonsense there it's hard to know where to start pulling that post apart. African countries being in the EU seems a simple enough place to start.
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inhuman
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#17
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(Original post by TheIr0nDuke)
A pitiful attempt. Everyone knows that the EU is bureaucratic to it's core. The amount of civil servants doesn't make a governing body more bureaucratic, actions do.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...mpaigners.html

http://www.gatestoneinstitute.org/4053/eu-regulations



What's wrong with nationalism?
Patriotism, nothing. Nationalism, everything.
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username1799249
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#18
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(Original post by TheIr0nDuke)
A pitiful attempt. Everyone knows that the EU is bureaucratic to it's core. The amount of civil servants doesn't make a governing body more bureaucratic, actions do.
Ha! We can't talk about burocracy. I have just filled in 60+ pages of student application forms and they still screwed it up. We are the masters of burocracy! Accusing the EU of being burocratic is the pot calling the kettle black!
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FredOrJohn
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#19
(Original post by Duncan2012)
There's so much nonsense there it's hard to know where to start pulling that post apart. African countries being in the EU seems a simple enough place to start.
Geographically we already have Africa in the EU.

Italy is the bit of Africa that bashed into Europe to create the Alps (I hope your politics is more accurate than your geography) - Have you ever noticed how its almost impossible to get to Italy without going through great big tunnels????

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adriatic_Plate

.
We also have spain's mainland African territories if you wrongly view the EU as a white only geo-social construct.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14114627

I'm not sure if you are just trying to make me out as silly or just pretending to be silly yourself. As I said I can see things both ways, I'm not closed minded. I was NOT presenting the extreme inclusive case immediately, you note I suggested Tunisia and Israel as a starting point.

(the African territories already have the Euro, so in a way they are already more in the EU than we are)
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JamesN88
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#20
(Original post by FredOrJohn)
Geographically we already have Africa in the EU.

Italy is the bit of Africa that bashed into Europe to create the Alps (I hope your politics is more accurate than your geography) - Have you ever noticed how its almost impossible to get to Italy without going through great big tunnels????

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adriatic_Plate

.
We also have spain's mainland African territories if you wrongly view the EU as a white only geo-social construct.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-14114627

I'm not sure if you are just trying to make me out as silly or just pretending to be silly yourself. As I said I can see things both ways, I'm not closed minded. I was NOT presenting the extreme inclusive case immediately, you note I suggested Tunisia and Israel as a starting point.

(the African territories already have the Euro, so in a way they are already more in the EU than we are)
I had an interesting chat with a Spanish guy about there little bit of North Africa. He was of the opinion that they had no right to complain about Gibraltar while they hang onto it.
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