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Brown Patrick Bateman
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Lord Huntroyde)
It's a marked change from the days of History graduates being the main IB workers, getting in big law firms/IBs etc seems much more difficult now that 30/40 years ago.
Yes, because more and more people are getting degrees, so with tough competition IBs can afford to largely select the best economists/mathematicians. I'm currently sitting on a massive trading floor near the forex trading desk. None of them have degrees. Some failed O Level Maths. In 20 years the people sitting there doing the same job and doing just as well will have Masters degrees.

The big law firms aren't so subject-discriminatory - S&M (magic circle) was full of classicists and Arch&Anthers. 40-50% of solicitors in (and outside) the magic circle continue to have not done Law as an undergrad degree.
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yan2004
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#62
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#62
what is the application process like and ur experiences for internships and also if anybody knows graduate positions. i know its extremely competitive but am interested in their methods such as aptitude and psychometric tests and what actually goes on. anyone else read Liar's Poker? altho the process he went thro is largely outdated still thought it was quite amusing how he eventually got a job.

also does anybody have tips on interview technique for IB and finance in general, cos mines pretty poor atm. and the earlier i try to improve it the better. i dont have a problem with cold calling hr managers for work experience placements even if i generally get knocked back or working with senior figures when on work placements but interview wise im crap. ie oxford interview, altho that was largely my own fault.

Thanks
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MentallyIll
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#63
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#63
(Original post by Jools)
Yes, because more and more people are getting degrees, so with tough competition IBs can afford to largely select the best economists/mathematicians. I'm currently sitting on a massive trading floor near the forex trading desk. None of them have degrees. Some failed O Level Maths. In 20 years the people sitting there doing the same job and doing just as well will have Masters degrees.

The big law firms aren't so subject-discriminatory - S&M (magic circle) was full of classicists and Arch&Anthers. 40-50% of solicitors in (and outside) the magic circle continue to have not done Law as an undergrad degree.

It seems that BB firms are more open to non business degrees. Half the employee profiles on their websites say they have studied other things.
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Brown Patrick Bateman
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#64
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#64
(Original post by MentallyIll)
It seems that BB firms are more open to non business degrees. Half the employee profiles on their websites say they have studied other things.
OK. But a) Employee profiles on their own websites are never going to be an accurate depiction are they?! And b) The current graduate makeup differs from the incoming ones - it's only been in the last few years this explosion of graduates. Between 2002 and 2003 alone the number applying per blue chip job jumped from 37 to 42.
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MentallyIll
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#65
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#65
(Original post by Jools)
OK. But a) Employee profiles on their own websites are never going to be an accurate depiction are they?! And b) The current graduate makeup differs from the incoming ones - it's only been in the last few years this explosion of graduates. Between 2002 and 2003 alone the number applying per blue chip job jumped from 37 to 42.

No I wasnt suggesting that they were an accurate depiction, but it would suggest that by doing so they are enticing non business grads. Surely they wouldn't do this if they had intentions of hiring only business grads.
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Brown Patrick Bateman
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#66
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#66
(Original post by MentallyIll)
No I wasnt suggesting that they were an accurate depiction, but it would suggest that by doing so they are enticing non business grads. Surely they wouldn't do this if they had intentions of hiring only business grads.
True. Though they don't seem to be in reality... BB interns and new grads are virtually all doing relevant degrees.
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MentallyIll
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#67
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(Original post by Jools)
True. Though they don't seem to be in reality... BB interns and new grads are virtually all doing relevant degrees.

Why would they be so mean to us non-business people?
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Brown Patrick Bateman
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#68
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#68
(Original post by MentallyIll)
Why would they be so mean to us non-business people?
60 people per place.
40 have a 1st/2:1 in a relevant degree, and are thus seen as a 'safe bet' - prior knowledge of financial markets.
20 have a 1st/2:1 in a non-relevant degree, and are thus seen as a 'risk' - their credentials and skills may be successfully transferrable to an IB environment; they may not.
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MentallyIll
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#69
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#69
(Original post by Jools)
60 people per place.
40 have a 1st/2:1 in a relevant degree, and are thus seen as a 'safe bet' - prior knowledge of financial markets.
20 have a 1st/2:1 in a non-relevant degree, and are thus seen as a 'risk' - their credentials and skills may be successfully transferrable to an IB environment; they may not.

Then why not make life easier for themselves and others by only accepting relevant degrees? Seems like nonsense to me.
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Brown Patrick Bateman
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#70
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#70
(Original post by MentallyIll)
Then why not make life easier for themselves and others by only accepting relevant degrees? Seems like nonsense to me.
Because their fundamental interest with graduate recruitment is selecting the candidates they think will be best for their firm (perhaps measured by potential performance, exceeding targets etc), and there'll always be exceptional candidates doing a non-relevant degree able to demonstrate this. Or perhaps some who've got a strong background in finance everywhere except their degree subject (previous work experience, societies etc). Accepting relevant-degree candidates only would be deemed narrow-minded, potentially losing them some very talented people.
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MentallyIll
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#71
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#71
(Original post by Jools)
Because their fundamental interest with graduate recruitment is selecting the candidates they think will be best for their firm (perhaps measured by potential performance, exceeding targets etc), and there'll always be exceptional candidates doing a non-relevant degree able to demonstrate this. Or perhaps some who've got a strong background in finance everywhere except their degree subject (previous work experience, societies etc). Accepting relevant-degree candidates only would be deemed narrow-minded, potentially losing them some very talented people.
If you paint an accurate picture, then surely these banks should express a preference for a business degree, rather than have us others under some false idea.
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yan2004
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#72
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well if they did do that they may deter those who are exceptional from a non business degree. but also u have to take into account there are a wide variety of areas in IB and altho a vast majority need strong quantitive and financial backgrounds there maybe some that require relatively less and so non business degrees may not be as disadvantaged
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MentallyIll
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#73
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#73
(Original post by yan2004)
well if they did do that they may deter those who are exceptional from a non business degree. but also u have to take into account there are a wide variety of areas in IB and altho a vast majority need strong quantitive and financial backgrounds there maybe some that require relatively less...if that makes ne sense
Yes, it makes sense, but expressing a preference (which they clearly have) would not deter exceptional non business people. What is the point of supplying us with an image that is not neccessarily accurate? They should be more honest.
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yan2004
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#74
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#74
but also there are some areas in IB that require a very high amount of quantitative and numerical skills. therefore non-business degrees such as physics and maths and other science based degrees may also have a more equal chance to those studying econ, finance or business. i dont think u can just refine it to business and non business. altho obviously those studying for example classics or history may not have as high numerical skills, BUT they will/may have other transferable skills and relavant extra curricular activity towards the industry. and i think if they just narrow down the field of subjects then u do stand to loose a potential number of exceptional applicants, even if they expressed a preference, altho in some areas they do and secondly IB and finance is a wide sector so narrowing the field may not actually provide productive and worthwhile

Altho in saying this ive just been looking at the GS worker profiles and have yet to find someone who has not studied a finance, econ, science related subject...political and social science??...maybe

btw wot do u intend to study next year
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Brown Patrick Bateman
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#75
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#75
(Original post by yan2004)
altho obviously those studying for example classics or history may not have as high numerical skills
This assumption is what the problem is. Just because they're not studying a non-mathematical subject doesn't mean their numerical skills aren't as high.
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MentallyIll
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#76
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#76
(Original post by yan2004)
but also there are some areas in IB that require a very high amount of quantitative and numerical skills. therefore non-business degrees such as physics and maths and other science based degrees may also have a more equal chance to those studying econ, finance or business. i dont think u can just refine it to business and non business. altho obviously those studying for example classics or history may not have as high numerical skills, BUT they will/may have other transferable skills and relavant extra curricular activity towards the industry. and i think if they just narrow down the field of subjects then u do stand to loose a potential number of exceptional applicants, even if they expressed a preference, altho in some areas they do and secondly IB and finance is a wide sector so narrowing the field may not actually provide productive and worthwhile

Altho in saying this ive just been looking at the GS worker profiles and have yet to find someone who has not studied a finance, econ, science related subject...political and social science??...maybe

btw wot do u intend to study next year
Well perhaps they should emphasise that a quant degree is preferable.

Arch&Anth. Don't know what i'll do for the second part yet.

What are you doing?

(I know of a previous Arch&Anther (2:2!!!) who has done extremely well at a bb firm).
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yan2004
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#77
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#77
"may not"

two key words there, they may not have as high numerical skills, some may have as high or higher numerical skills, altho generally i would assume that generally two students from the same uni one doing maths and one doing classics that the one doing maths would have higher numerical...GENERALLY
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yan2004
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#78
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#78
hopefully accounting and finance
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MentallyIll
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#79
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#79
(Original post by yan2004)
hopefully accounting and finance

Where?
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yan2004
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#80
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#80
hopefully LSE
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