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    https://www.theguardian.com/business...-eu-referendum

    Absolutely disgusting. What he doesn't realise is that with Statesmen like Boris at the helm, all other countries will pay us to trade with them on our terms!

    [sarcasm]
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    Anyone who points out very real risks to a Brexit is simply scaremongering.

    I'd much rather trust the honest politicians such as Boris Johnson and Nigek Farage.
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    Political Ambassador
    The leavers kept pointing out what a crap negotiator Cameron was yet he's managed to convince all these people to lie for him. Astounding, unless there is some truth to what they are saying? Nah.
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    (Original post by Aj12)
    The leavers kept pointing out what a crap negotiator Cameron was yet he's managed to convince all these people to lie for him. Astounding, unless there is some truth to what they are saying? Nah.
    It's all just a conspiracy theory to prop up the elite. That's why we have real anti-elites like Lord Chancellor Gove and former Etonian Mayor of London Boris Johnson leading the out campaign.
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    Love how none of the Leavers are chiming in here. Maybe they've realised how ridiculous they sound trying to pretend they know more about trade than every trade organisation in the world.
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    We have things to trade this will not change if we stay in or LEAVE.. we have things for sale, we buy things.. there must be a market for the things we sell, and sure to hell people won't stop selling their products to us!

    Little old me can go onto a internet site and purchase things from anywhere in the world... ebay helps me do this not the EU..

    So why do we need these stupid trade agreements or treaties or "fair trade" rubbish.. well I know why!!
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    But... we're the 5th largest economy in the world!?
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    We have things to trade this will not change if we stay in or LEAVE.. we have things for sale, we buy things.. there must be a market for the things we sell, and sure to hell people won't stop selling their products to us!

    Little old me can go onto a internet site and purchase things from anywhere in the world... ebay helps me do this not the EU..

    So why do we need these stupid trade agreements or treaties or "fair trade" rubbish.. well I know why!!
    http://news.cbi.org.uk/business-issu...ade-deals-pdf/

    Nobody's saying we wouldn't still trade, but the benefits we receive at the moment are undeniable.

    I suppose like the WTO, the CBI know nothing as well.:rolleyes:
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    A product has a value.. + shipping costs.. this is what everybody should pay.. ohh but wait, if we are a member of the EU we get a special deal!! Like an exclusive club that only certain countries can join.. sounds fair!! To be part of this exclusive club however we need to follow their rules and regulations and we need to beg them to change things.. and also pay them BILLIONS per year! Is this a great deal.. that's the question?

    I forgot to ask.. WHAT BENEFITS EXACTLY?


    (Original post by JamesN88)
    http://news.cbi.org.uk/business-issu...ade-deals-pdf/

    Nobody's saying we wouldn't still trade, but the benefits we receive at the moment are undeniable.

    I suppose like the WTO, the CBI know nothing as well.:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    A product has a value.. + shipping costs.. this is what everybody should pay.. ohh but wait, if we are a member of the EU we get a special deal!! Like an exclusive club that only certain countries can join.. sounds fair!! To be part of this exclusive club however we need to follow their rules and regulations and we need to beg them to change things.. and also pay them BILLIONS per year! Is this a great deal.. that's the question?

    I forgot to ask.. WHAT BENEFITS EXACTLY?
    The trade benefits of us being in the EU are outlined clearly in the pdf document, linked to in my original post.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Love how none of the Leavers are chiming in here. Maybe they've realised how ridiculous they sound trying to pretend they know more about trade than every trade organisation in the world.
    So we should listen to foregin bodies with their own interests at heart? We should be part of a bullying blackmailing trading organisation, when no-one else on earth uses this system? We should attach ourselves to an uncompetitive, failing economy, and politician project, just because globalists, corporations and supranational institutions want us to? We should be bullied into thinking our future is hopeless independent, despite the fact the world is changing rapidly, we have the whole future ahead of us, and we have centuries of extraordinarily successful independent history? This can all be dismissed with arrogance? You are total sure you're never going to regret this decision as Europe takes more and more power, southern Europe declines even more economically, and the central block gets more authoritarian? You're happy to be the offshore 8% share of this project for good? No turning back..
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    That PDF just contains who we are allowed to trade with etc and this is called a benefit, or do we get discount for goods being in the EU?

    (Original post by JamesN88)
    The trade benefits of us being in the EU are outlined clearly in the pdf document, linked to in my original post.
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    ^ Watch out for this one.

    Guy may take the jump when Brexit lose.
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    (Original post by SaucissonSecCy)
    So we should listen to foregin bodies with their own interests at heart? We should be part of a bullying blackmailing trading organisation, when no-one else on earth uses this system? We should attach ourselves to an uncompetitive, failing economy, and politician project, just because globalists, corporations and supranational institutions want us to? We should be bullied into thinking our future is hopeless independent, despite the fact the world is changing rapidly, we have the whole future ahead of us, and we have centuries of extraordinarily successful independent history? This can all be dismissed with arrogance? You are total sure you're never going to regret this decision as Europe takes more and more power, southern Europe declines even more economically, and the central block gets more authoritarian? You're happy to be the offshore 8% share of this project for good? No turning back..
    I don't understand how people do this. You manage to just wave away all the expert opinions in the world, making some vague accusations of them looking after "their own interests". I wish I could so easily live in my own little fantasy world and pretend that everything I dislike isn't real.
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    (Original post by Iknowbest)
    That PDF just contains who we are allowed to trade with etc and this is called a benefit, or do we get discount for goods being in the EU?
    So you're saying that 50+ trade deals and free trade with the worlds largest marketplace isn't any use to the UK whatsoever?

    You talked about buying stuff from anywhere and just paying shipping. I assume you know what import charges and VAT are?

    https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty
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    OMG of course .. you pay vat when you purchase of course.. duty maybe but not on many goods.. what I dont need to do is join a CLUB in order to be allowed to do it.. pathetic bullying and damn right insulting!
    (Original post by JamesN88)
    So you're saying that 50+ trade deals and free trade with the worlds largest marketplace isn't any use to the UK whatsoever?

    You talked about buying stuff from anywhere and just paying shipping. I assume you know what import charges and VAT are?

    https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty
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    (Original post by ZeroFree)
    But... we're the 5th largest economy in the world!?
    Is that because of, or inspire of being in the EU? When you are at the top, the only way is down especially if you rock the boat.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    I don't understand how people do this. You manage to just wave away all the expert opinions in the world, making some vague accusations of them looking after "their own interests". I wish I could so easily live in my own little fantasy world and pretend that everything I dislike isn't real.
    It's the IN people who do that. So you won't accept that a lot of forces that want us in are
    a)Pro globalisation and from other countries
    b)Pro corporate power and the rich

    So many people advocating in are privileged, represent big money, and have no emotional investment in this country, or patriotism.

    Is IN not denying the effects of a wage compressed economy and a continual tide of immigrants on our culture, schools, hospitals, housing market, countryside(over population) and in creating mass poverty, a destitute underclass in our own country, and are they not completely oblivious and in a fantasy world that this is nothing to do with a love of 'diversity' or even more laughably 'security', and all in the interests of the rich.

    It's you who lives in delusion if you think that powerful and super rich interests, corporate ones, have no influence on decisions such as this, have no politicising influence over figures, many of these so-called objective organizations are EU funded as well.

    It is such nonsense, when we celebrate independence for the likes of Jamaica, 1 million strong. When we look at Japan, and Australia, their success and happiness independent, well they trade with China and Asia, depend on their economics success to an extent, do we suggest they pool sovereignty? Do we say it's impossible for Canada to be sovereign, and not live by giving away lawmaking and free movement powers because they trade with the USA?
    This is intuitively ludicrous, there are no arguments in favour of the way this thing operates, you are basically saying yes to authoritarianism and blackmail and letting fear rule you because of the supposed bad consequences of breaking away.


    We need to put our foot down now, that will precipitate other good things, a domino effect. There is no way people want to stop trading with us, it's just fear mongering. If France votes independence after us, very likely, they going to stop trading as well, and other people who may break away? It's just coercion, bullying, and we are better than it. It really is as simple as that, if we break away we don't get utopia, but we get it disappearing further and further into the rear view mirrio where we ever had to be held to ransom, and people take us on our own terms, we success long term. Get pulled into the vortex and we are subsumed forever. The pseudosophisticated and those whose horizons are low and fear based, think that idealism and the long term are irrelevant. They are wrong, they are politics at it's best, and the future will prove them wrong.

    If you want to make us a 'hotel not a home', fine, I guess I won't top myself, but I just will feel increasingly it's a patch of land that people want to be like anywhere. We will have lost something forever that's precious. I guess the two are linked, the wanting to make this country not special and pretty much anywhere, and the ability to move other places. It ties in. If we remain I get the benefit of living in Europe, which becomes more attractive, but only because we've given up our own shaping of our future that could have been better and unique.
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    scaremongering nowadays in politics is just a petty, annoying way of 'warning'

    its only actually scaremongering when the potential is completely untrue or manipulative
 
 
 
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