The IRA and Britexit Watch

FredOrJohn
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apparently there is an open border between the EU and the UK via Ireland and Northern Ireland.

If we left the EU and put up a border this would be against the "peace process" and potentially lead to conflict?

Is this so?

If we had border guards (police/soldiers) would that be a red rag to a bull?

Could it work or would people die every so often?
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typonaut
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There was some discussion of this on TV a few weeks ago - I think it was Paxman quizzing Theresa Villiers. He was saying that it was infeasible that the UK would have an open border/non-border with the Republic of Ireland, and yet any EU citizen/resident could come to Ireland and just walk across the border into the UK (and then on to the mainland by other means).

Villiers was adamant that there would be no border control with the Republic of Ireland.

I don't know what the "correct" answer is, but there clearly is a problem here. Certainly I believe that the "regionalism" promoted by the EU is a reason there is less friction in Northern Ireland, or at least the reason it comes to the surface less often. Re-imposing border controls seems likely to inflame the situation rather than to support the current peace accord.
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L i b
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(Original post by FredOrJohn)
apparently there is an open border between the EU and the UK via Ireland and Northern Ireland.

If we left the EU and put up a border this would be against the "peace process" and potentially lead to conflict?

Is this so?

If we had border guards (police/soldiers) would that be a red rag to a bull?

Could it work or would people die every so often?
At various points, we have tried to maintain an effectively semi-closed land border in Ireland. It's been a pain in the arse. Above that, we have recognised - since 1920 - that citizens of Ireland are not foreigners in this country and are in almost all cases treated as British citizens when they come here. To reverse that position would have consequences for our relations with that country.

I'm not sure it would necessarily have huge ramifications for the peace process. Open borders are handy, but they're not really what the Irish Republicans are fighting for.

The problem with an open border with Ireland is that we expressly do then lose control of the UK's borders. Even if we maintain full border checks between Northern Ireland and Great Britain - an affront to their place in the union, as far as I'm concerned - we're still allowing willy-nilly access to a part of our sovereign territory.
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Rakas21
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This entire thread is based on the flawed assumption that we won't capitulate on free movement for the single market, we will.
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username2585877
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The CTA(Common Travel Area) created freedom of movement between the UK, ROI, and Channel Islands long before the EEC/EU
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mojojojo101
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(Original post by frankielogue)
The CTA(Common Travel Area) created freedom of movement between the UK, ROI, and Channel Islands long before the EEC/EU
Not really relevant which came first. The question is how could you justify maintaining the CTA if you want to reinstate border controls between the EU and the UK.


Personally I think this is just one of those that the Leave campaign just hasn't thought about very hard and much like an EU trade deal is in the position of 'we'll just deal with it'.
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username2585877
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
Not really relevant which came first. The question is how could you justify maintaining the CTA if you want to reinstate border controls between the EU and the UK.


Personally I think this is just one of those that the Leave campaign just hasn't thought about very hard and much like an EU trade deal is in the position of 'we'll just deal with it'.
Potentially. I’d assume that we’d check passports and only admit those with Irish ones, and you have to live there for like 5 years for citizenship
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mojojojo101
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(Original post by frankielogue)
Potentially. I’d assume that we’d check passports and only admit those with Irish ones, and you have to live there for like 5 years for citizenship
At which point you basically have border control and the CTA is pretty much dead.
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Airmed
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I would be shocked if they put the border back up between the South and N.Ireland, and I particularly don't want it, I doubt anyone in N.I wants the border patrols reinstated.

(PS, the IRA aren't the only terror group in N.I).
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username2585877
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(Original post by mojojojo101)
At which point you basically have border control and the CTA is pretty much dead.
Perhaps, but it’s still free movement between citizens of those countries
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username2769500
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What no! That stuff only happens when the government is completely inept, and useless. They're not that scary and I'm sure there not completely mental. That won't ever happen again. The Islamic state on the other hand do not require a government to be so defenceless and are less opportunistic. I would be more worried about that group of Palestinians than any organisation in NI hurting anyone. They're not stupid either...
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That Bearded Man
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I can see long negotiations about the "border" neither side wants it but it may be forced down from up high. This will be probably symbolic for Republicans and cause instability in Stormont but wouldn't be too worried about the PP (wall will probably be vandalised though)

Huge knock on effect on trade though, and a real pain for all those people who fly out of Dublin airport from the North.

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Rakas21
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(Original post by That Bearded Man)
I can see long negotiations about the "border" neither side wants it but it may be forced down from up high. This will be probably symbolic for Republicans and cause instability in Stormont but wouldn't be too worried about the PP (wall will probably be vandalised though)

Huge knock on effect on trade though, and a real pain for all those people who fly out of Dublin airport from the North.

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Why would it be forced on them?

If neither the UK government nor Irish government want a border then there will be no border. As Germany has shown with its unilateral decision to pollute the continent with the third world, the EU currently has no external border policy.

The danger in the future would be that the EU forces one upon you.

*I should say that as a unionist i don't much care since it would maintain legal and cultural division however as somebody that wishes for the eventual reunification of Ireland and the UK, i think we should be uber nice to them.
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That Bearded Man
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(Original post by Rakas21)
Why would it be forced on them?

If neither the UK government nor Irish government want a border then there will be no border. As Germany has shown with its unilateral decision to pollute the continent with the third world, the EU currently has no external border policy.

The danger in the future would be that the EU forces one upon you.

*I should say that as a unionist i don't much care since it would maintain legal and cultural division however as somebody that wishes for the eventual reunification of Ireland and the UK, i think we should be uber nice to them.
If nothing else, the UK would want to retain Ireland as trading partner and ally. The logic would be that the border is necessary because of the risk of migration to Ireland, then North into the UK. I'd be concerned that Europhobics would consider this likely and hence enforce the border from Westminster (probably form of "cut the block grant or create a border") I'd be more concerned in Westminster enforcing it, rather than Brussels.
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markova21
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(Original post by That Bearded Man)
If nothing else, the UK would want to retain Ireland as trading partner and ally. The logic would be that the border is necessary because of the risk of migration to Ireland, then North into the UK. I'd be concerned that Europhobics would consider this likely and hence enforce the border from Westminster (probably form of "cut the block grant or create a border" I'd be more concerned in Westminster enforcing it, rather than Brussels.
Yes, but don't forget there's a whole stretch of water called the Irish Sea between the North and the rest of the UK. It's not as if they can just walk in,is it?
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That Bearded Man
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(Original post by markova21)
Yes, but don't forget there's a whole stretch of water called the Irish Sea between the North and the rest of the UK. It's not as if they can just walk in,is it?
So then there will just be extra security on ferries and flights within UK flights? In all "local" ports and airport terminals?
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username2769500
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calm down
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paul514
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It's far more likely that they will just passport check between NI and the British mainland.

Do that and change citizenship rules for eu migrants who go into NI illegally to claim or go to the British mainland

Problem solved


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(Original post by paul514)
It's far more likely that they will just passport check between NI and the British mainland.

Do that and change citizenship rules for eu migrants who go into NI illegally to claim or go to the British mainland

Problem solved


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And then there is the issue over Irish passports, so it's not really problem solved at all.

Northern Ireland is going to be a special case when it comes to Brexit. Except Westminster don't really want to deal with that right now, and N.I doesn't have a proper government to deal with it right now. :lol:
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Dodgypirate
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I'm sure the UK and Irish governments can discuss this during the Brexit deals.

There's not much stopping us having controlled borders between both countries.
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