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    I don't want to be closed minded so I want to know why people think leaving the EU would stop immigration?
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    I don't think people want to stop immigration. Leaving the EU would give us more control of the scale and type of immigration into the country, that's just fact.

    The vote would also signal to our government that that's what the majority want, if the vote goes that way.
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    (Original post by G8D)
    I don't think people want to stop immigration. Leaving the EU would give us more control of the scale and type of immigration into the country, that's just fact.

    The vote would also signal to our government that that's what the majority want, if the vote goes that way.
    I understand but why is immigration seen as such a bad thing?



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    (Original post by Jawsomesauce35)
    I understand but why is immigration seen as such a bad thing?



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    Nationalists value the culture and the make-up we have now. We can look to Germanistan and see what radically pro-immigration policies accomplish. The dissolution of the indigenous culture. The homogenisation of distinct national units. I don't want that, do you? It destroys culture, history and identity.

    Control over immigration and refugee intake is important. Vetting is important. No one who is not British or naturalised has a right to live here. To live in this country is a privilege and we need to start treating it as such again.

    Important to note that in using general language as you do you are confusing the issue. The issue is not immigration, it is the lack of control over immigration.
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    (Original post by G8D)
    Nationalists value the culture and the make-up we have now. We can look to Germanistan and see what radically pro-immigration policies accomplish. The dissolution of the indigenous culture. The homogenisation of distinct national units. I don't want that, do you? It destroys culture, history and identity.

    Control over immigration and refugee intake is important. Vetting is important. No one who is not British or naturalised has a right to live here. To live in this country is a privilege and we need to start treating it as such again.

    Important to note that in using general language as you do you are confusing the issue. The issue is not immigration, it is the lack of control over immigration.
    So people are voting to leave the EU to control immigration not stop it. Well I guess that makes more sense and how will leaving the EU control immigration? I haven't done any research on this, I'm just curious as to how the voting links with immigration.

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    (Original post by Jawsomesauce35)
    So people are voting to leave the EU to control immigration not stop it. Well I guess that makes more sense and how will leaving the EU control immigration? I haven't done any research on this, I'm just curious as to how the voting links with immigration.

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    EU citizens benefit from 'free movement of people' which means a) any EU citizen can enter the UK and save for a handful of specific instances cannot be removed and b) we are beholden to the non-EU immigration policies of other EU states.

    If Germany choses to naturalise 1 million Turks they can legally come here and we cannot complain, by way of example only.

    Being out of the EU would allow us to select who can immigrate on the basis of economic worth, type of job, country of origin etc etc. It would also allow us overall control over numbers which we currently only have in respect of non-EU immigration.
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    (Original post by G8D)
    EU citizens benefit from 'free movement of people' which means a) any EU citizen can enter the UK and save for a handful of specific instances cannot be removed and b) we are beholden to the non-EU immigration policies of other EU states.

    If Germany choses to naturalise 1 million Turks they can legally come here and we cannot complain, by way of example only.

    Being out of the EU would allow us to select who can immigrate on the basis of economic worth, type of job, country of origin etc etc. It would also allow us overall control over numbers which we currently only have in respect of non-EU immigration.
    I see, the EU does play a part in immigration hence the link with voting. I've always thought that the UK would want more immigrants due to the ageing population and the large NHS bills. But yes I clearly understand why people would vote to leave the EU, I guess controlling it would do some good. Thanks for the help btw this is all really interesting for me


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    (Original post by Jawsomesauce35)
    I see, the EU does play a part in immigration hence the link with voting. I've always thought that the UK would want more immigrants due to the ageing population and the large NHS bills. But yes I clearly understand why people would vote to leave the EU, I guess controlling it would do some good. Thanks for the help btw this is all really interesting for me


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    Immigrants grow old as well. You don't solve the problem by importing young foreigners, you just make the problem much worse for future generations.
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    (Original post by Jawsomesauce35)
    I've always thought that the UK would want more immigrants due to the ageing population and the large NHS bills.
    A higher population leads to a need for more infrastructure (roads, railways, airports, housing, schools, hospitals) which are costly and need space close to housing. More traffic slows down travel and pushes up costs, significantly reducing quality of life.

    And, of course, more people need more houses which will push up rents and purchase prices, affecting those not currently on the house-owning ladder most acutely, and put more power into the hands of landlords and sellers.
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    (Original post by G8D)
    Immigrants grow old as well. You don't solve the problem by importing young foreigners, you just make the problem much worse for future generations.
    But with immigration comes income and most immigrants tend to go back to their home country to retire. Immigrants are a big help to the country so it's only fair to say that young immigrants are exactly what the UK need

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    (Original post by Jawsomesauce35)
    But with immigration comes income and most immigrants tend to go back to their home country to retire. Immigrants are a big help to the country so it's only fair to say that young immigrants are exactly what the UK need

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    Do you have any source for your retirement point?
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    it's hypocritical to say "let's have less immigration" while also saying "let's remain in the EU" - whether or not most of the immigration comes from the EU or not is besides the point, because freedom of movement to 500+ million people will obviously make a problem like this even worse. that's a fact.
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    (Original post by G8D)
    Do you have any source for your retirement point?
    No I dont have a source but that's what I think. I don't have much knowledge on the subject so I can't really hit you with facts and evidence but I just feel like people are automatically thinking immigration is bad, "let's have less of it". I just don't agree with it so in the end it's just a matter of opinion
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    (Original post by Jawsomesauce35)
    No I dont have a source but that's what I think. I don't have much knowledge on the subject so I can't really hit you with facts and evidence but I just feel like people are automatically thinking immigration is bad, "let's have less of it". I just don't agree with it so in the end it's just a matter of opinion
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    If we look at immigration from the old days they stay here mostly I believe. What also has to be remembered that after decades somewhere it becomes your home, not where you were before, something also tells me that given they come here for a higher income on the whole they would stay for the higher pensions.

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    (Original post by Jawsomesauce35)
    So people are voting to leave the EU to control immigration not stop it. Well I guess that makes more sense and how will leaving the EU control immigration? I haven't done any research on this, I'm just curious as to how the voting links with immigration.

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    Part of the argument is between the economic benefits for the country or if it puts too much strain on public services. Personally I'm for the former and blame the Tories policies for the problems with public services. Nobody on either side apart from a handful of idiots is saying "pull up the drawbridge".
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    I don't see immigration as that bad tbh...

    I personally think that everyone is somewhat of an immigrant in the sense that no one is 100% ancestrally British. Its a fact really. Tracing far back into the ancestral lineage of people who claim their 100% born and bred British.....their ancestral lineage would say otherwise....


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    What do Brexiters have to say about the situation in Norway/Switzerland - where in order to do free trade they must accept free movement? Therefore if trade deals with EU countries are to be maintained then there would be no difference with the current immigration policy?

    Interesting this fact doesn't seem to be thrown around much by the remain side who are crowing on about the economic security argument which is admittedly getting boring. Is it because it's incorrect? I haven't the time to research this in depth, I'm voting remain but this is what i've heard.

    This could possibly be the decider. I think that free movement is a 'necessary evil' if we are to keep free trade with the EU which is important for the economy. Ideally immigration should be fair for all, which it isn't currently but at the same time many EU countries have higher immigration figures than us and many of the EU immigrants come here and work hard in jobs which unfortunately nobody else wants.
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    (Original post by bj1)
    What do Brexiters have to say about the situation in Norway/Switzerland - where in order to do free trade they must accept free movement? Therefore if trade deals with EU countries are to be maintained then there would be no difference with the current immigration policy?

    Interesting this fact doesn't seem to be thrown around much by the remain side who are crowing on about the economic security argument which is admittedly getting boring. Is it because it's incorrect? I haven't the time to research this in depth, I'm voting remain but this is what i've heard.

    This could possibly be the decider. I think that free movement is a 'necessary evil' if we are to keep free trade with the EU which is important for the economy. Ideally immigration should be fair for all, which it isn't currently but at the same time many EU countries have higher immigration figures than us and many of the EU immigrants come here and work hard in jobs which unfortunately nobody else wants.
    Clearly it is not absolutely necessary to have free movement to have a trade deal, even in Europe, for instance, well, almost every single European country not in the EEA (all bit Belarus and Russia .

    There is also the matter of whether the free trade with the EU is a reason to stay if it is the only reason, as trade with the EU declines it becomes less relevant, especially as trade agreements are made with the rest of tje world. Further we have to consider that yes, we export about 40pc of our goods to the EU, they're our single biggest partner, but the same is true the other way around, we are the biggest EU export market by a long way, even when we include exports to the US in the second place US figure. It's generally true that you don't threaten your customer, and that in the powerhouses of the EU there will be strong domestic pressure to establish a FTA, it has to be remembered that on the whole what Germany wants Germany gets.

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    (Original post by G8D)
    I don't think people want to stop immigration. Leaving the EU would give us more control of the scale and type of immigration into the country, that's just fact.

    The vote would also signal to our government that that's what the majority want, if the vote goes that way.
    And yet most of our immigrants come from outside the EU, while EU immigrants contribute SIGNIFCANTLY more than non-EU immigrants and are more likely to be educated.

    The immigration that we have control over is less beneficial to the country than the immigration we don't have control over. But never even mentions that.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    And yet most of our immigrants come from outside the EU, while EU immigrants contribute SIGNIFCANTLY more than non-EU immigrants and are more likely to be educated.

    The immigration that we have control over is less beneficial to the country than the immigration we don't have control over. But never even mentions that.
    Agreed. Immigration is the one thing that I am not hugely in favour of. But we seem unable to control the immigration we can control. My conclusion is that immigration is much more complicated than it seems. If someone arrives and destroys their passport how can you deport them for example? If we leave our border will probably come back to Dover from Calais exacerbating the illegal immigrant problem.

    Then there is the UK traveller. A couple of years ago, immigration control was tightened. As a result, returning holiday makers were forced to queue for up to 6 hours in order to get through passport control. The resulting bun fight had the Home Secretary U-turn and the head of Border Control resign over the way the Home Office had treated matters.

    Leave politicians are politicians in general are great at talking the talk but ever since Tony Blair got in, successive administrations have been unable to stop or slow down both legal and illegal immiagration.
 
 
 
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