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    (Original post by operato)
    if the allies had only blocked off the suez canal
    If Hitler had only been assassinated in January of 1941.
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    (Original post by Sire)
    If Hitler had only been assassinated in January of 1941.
    if the allies hadn't made the treaty of versailles...
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    I think america should take a look at there own problems that the people in their country face everyday, before commenting on other 'religious actions'. What about all of those high school massacres that have happened?. That is equally just as bad.
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    Yes, when von Brauchitsch was replaced by Hitler himself, it all went rather awry - unexpected tenacity of the Russians also played a part also, but in my opinion, Hitler should have abided by the Nazi-Soviet Pact, Stalin thought it was an everlasting peace and 'the promise to avoid bellicosity towards each other's nation',


    and about Hitler's racial beliefs playing a part in his foreign policies, I believe is frankly rubbish,Holocaust. Friedrich Nietzsche's thoughts on "breeding upwards" toward the goal of an Übermensch and the works of Chamberlain did indeed play a part on Hitler's political ideology, he was also quite pragmatic - I mean he provided money and supplies to Franco in 1936 and saw many middle eastern countries as allies (syria as a part of Vichy France etc..) and these 'untermenschen' (sp) allies were a part of Hitler's strategy, thus - i believe his supposed racial crusade is pretty much flawed, he was a nihilist through and through
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    (Original post by MyRedArmyDream)
    I think america should take a look at there own problems that the people in their country face everyday, before commenting on other 'religious actions'. What about all of those high school massacres that have happened?. That is equally just as bad.
    that's true, but america is also a country that wants to help. i know they havnt always helped in the best of ways, but the intentions are normally there. i didnt see all the international countries rushing out to capture saddam. you have a valid point though.
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    (Original post by John Paul Jones)
    Yes, when von Brauchitsch was replaced by Hitler himself, it all went rather awry - unexpected tenacity of the Russians also played a part also, but in my opinion, Hitler should have abided by the Nazi-Soviet Pact, Stalin thought it was an everlasting peace and 'the promise to avoid bellicosity towards each other's nation',


    and about Hitler's racial beliefs playing a part in his foreign policies, I believe is frankly rubbish,Holocaust. Friedrich Nietzsche's thoughts on "breeding upwards" toward the goal of an Übermensch and the works of Chamberlain did indeed play a part on Hitler's political ideology, he was also quite pragmatic - I mean he provided money and supplies to Franco in 1936 and saw many middle eastern countries as allies (syria as a part of Vichy France etc..) and these 'untermenschen' (sp) allies were a part of Hitler's strategy, thus - i believe his supposed racial crusade is pretty much flawed, he was a nihilist through and through

    just to clarify, I mean Houston Stewart Chamberlain - lol definately not Joe, Neville or Austin.
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    (Original post by John Paul Jones)
    Yes, when von Brauchitsch was replaced by Hitler himself, it all went rather awry - unexpected tenacity of the Russians also played a part also, but in my opinion, Hitler should have abided by the Nazi-Soviet Pact, Stalin thought it was an everlasting peace and 'the promise to avoid bellicosity towards each other's nation',


    and about Hitler's racial beliefs playing a part in his foreign policies, I believe is frankly rubbish,Holocaust. Friedrich Nietzsche's thoughts on "breeding upwards" toward the goal of an Übermensch and the works of Chamberlain did indeed play a part on Hitler's political ideology, he was also quite pragmatic - I mean he provided money and supplies to Franco in 1936 and saw many middle eastern countries as allies (syria as a part of Vichy France etc..) and these 'untermenschen' (sp) allies were a part of Hitler's strategy, thus - i believe his supposed racial crusade is pretty much flawed, he was a nihilist through and through
    Couldn't have put it better myself. Kudos to you.
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    (Original post by Sire)
    Couldn't have put it better myself. Kudos to you.

    hehehe, many thanks I find it a bit irritating when people say Hitler was hell bent on a racial crusade, when he blatantly wasn't and if he was, it was a very contradictory and hypocritical one !
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    (Original post by John Paul Jones)
    hehehe, many thanks I find it a bit irritating when people say Hitler was hell bent on a racial crusade, when he blatantly wasn't and if he was, it was a very contradictory and hypocritical one !
    he did hide it very well but he did dispies jewish people for refusing him into art college and after that he saw jews everywhere.
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    (Original post by operato)
    he did hide it very well but he did dispies jewish people for refusing him into art college and after that he saw jews everywhere.
    and treated them all as if they had all wronged him. i still agree with jpj though
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    (Original post by neha p)
    and treated them all as if they had all wronged him. i still agree with jpj though
    he wasn't that good of an artist anyways
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    (Original post by John Paul Jones)

    and about Hitler's racial beliefs playing a part in his foreign policies, I believe is frankly rubbish,Holocaust. Friedrich Nietzsche's thoughts on "breeding upwards" toward the goal of an Übermensch and the works of Chamberlain did indeed play a part on Hitler's political ideology, he was also quite pragmatic - I mean he provided money and supplies to Franco in 1936 and saw many middle eastern countries as allies (syria as a part of Vichy France etc..) and these 'untermenschen' (sp) allies were a part of Hitler's strategy, thus - i believe his supposed racial crusade is pretty much flawed, he was a nihilist through and through
    sorry im lost, can you explain that last paragraph (sorry ive had too little sleep )
    its not rubbish that hitlers racial beliefs played a role in his foreign policy at all, its acknowledged by most (actually id go so far as to say 99%) of historians that know anything about the third reich. its very easy to see, just look at the very concept of lebensruam in the east!!!! and the fact that bolshevism was considered jewish!!!! its practically undeniable that it played a role.
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    (Original post by operato)
    he did hide it very well but he did dispies jewish people for refusing him into art college and after that he saw jews everywhere.
    Isn't that just a theory or have they actually found proof that his not getting into art colledge is the main reason that he disliked Jews.?
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    (Original post by randdom)
    Isn't that just a theory or have they actually found proof that his not getting into art colledge is the main reason that he disliked Jews.?
    It can't be proved, but I think it's one theory among many that are widely accepted.
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    (Original post by randdom)
    Isn't that just a theory or have they actually found proof that his not getting into art colledge is the main reason that he disliked Jews.?
    was it not in mein kampf? it was certainly a turning point for him. (it was on a bbc documentary)
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    (Original post by Fleff)
    It can't be proved, but I think it's one theory among many that are widely accepted.
    but no theory could possibly prove why he violated the jewish population. theories are made-up things that are accepted. im sure there would be much more to the story if it's carefully analysed. nobody has made up a theory as to why hitler took advantage of his power or why he had to kill everyone in such an inhumane manner
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    (Original post by operato)
    he did hide it very well but he did dispies jewish people for refusing him into art college and after that he saw jews everywhere.

    well, i think he despised all non-Nazi art and culture, e.g the set up of the the 'Kampfbund fur Deutsche Kultur '(Fighting League for German Culture) with a view to the establishment of racially orientated criteria of beauty from which his offensive against the '*******ized Germanic ideas' of so-called degenerate art could be carried on without restraint and with all the resources of the state behind it. From then on the assumptions and stylistic principles of 'the art of the national community' were dictated by a narrow-minded zealous petty-bourgeois nationalists, a few artists i can't remember completely the name of - so i think the fact he didn't get into art college really wasn't an important factor in terms of the Nazi art and culture ....or what am i talking about? lol...went on a bit of a rant, but ah well,

    it's a bit revisionist to say because of X in Hitlers life, with which we have VERY little information about, Y happenned, and it all seems very theoretical, and we may never know the true nature of the early days of Hitler.
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    (Original post by Masonne)
    sorry im lost, can you explain that last paragraph (sorry ive had too little sleep )
    its not rubbish that hitlers racial beliefs played a role in his foreign policy at all, its acknowledged by most (actually id go so far as to say 99%) of historians that know anything about the third reich. its very easy to see, just look at the very concept of lebensruam in the east!!!! and the fact that bolshevism was considered jewish!!!! its practically undeniable that it played a role.

    lol - lebensruam - he wanted the Ukraine and the southern industrial areas of the USSR for primarily that, Ukrainian industry and grain for his soldiers, do you really think he was on an ideological quest?

    if he was so hell-bent on the destruction of Bolshevism, why make a ground-breaking pact with Stalin? why support Hiwis (minority volunteers) in fighting the red army? who were in fact marxists !
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    (Original post by neha p)
    but no theory could possibly prove why he violated the jewish population. theories are made-up things that are accepted. im sure there would be much more to the story if it's carefully analysed. nobody has made up a theory as to why hitler took advantage of his power or why he had to kill everyone in such an inhumane manner
    It's probable that no one will ever be able to comprehend what Hitler thought, therefor no theory can be proved. All we have to work on are his actions, and what he wrote in Mein Kampf, or any other authentic documents that Hitler may have written to do with his thoughts and feelings.
    So there are many accepted theory's, that are probably only accepted because they seem to agree with most, if not all, of the evidence that we have.
    None can be proved, unless Hitler wrote "I despise the Jews becuase >insert reason<" or "I'm doing this because >insert reason<".
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    (Original post by Masonne)
    sorry im lost, can you explain that last paragraph (sorry ive had too little sleep )
    its not rubbish that hitlers racial beliefs played a role in his foreign policy at all, its acknowledged by most (actually id go so far as to say 99%) of historians that know anything about the third reich. its very easy to see, just look at the very concept of lebensruam in the east!!!! and the fact that bolshevism was considered jewish!!!! its practically undeniable that it played a role.

    I basically said, Hitler really wasn't on an ideological quest by 1939
 
 
 
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