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material breach
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#121
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#121
I take it no one read my what if comment earlier
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neha p
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#122
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#122
(Original post by Speciez99)
I take it no one read my what if comment earlier
where is it? which one?
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material breach
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#123
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(Original post by Speciez99)
"what if" history, altho fun has little point, IMO, events are influenced by such a huge range of factors that changing one doesnt not necessarily cause the oposite event to occur.
when I say what if, i mean wondering what would of happened in history if a certain had or hadnt occured. The effects of such are to me incomprehenable and so all discussions are pointless.
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Fleffzilla
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#124
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#124
(Original post by Speciez99)
when I say what if, i mean wondering what would of happened in history if a certain had or hadnt occured. The effects of such are to me incomprehenable and so all discussions are pointless.
For example: What if Hitler had died of something when only a young boy...?
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John Paul Jones
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#125
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#125
(Original post by Fleff)
For example: What if Hitler had died of something when only a young boy...?

What If history is silly, it's far too conjectural
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material breach
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#126
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#126
(Original post by Fleff)
For example: What if Hitler had died of something when only a young boy...?
exactly
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Adhsur
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#127
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(Original post by Sire)
I have to agree. If the Americans had left well enough alone, the 9/11 attack wouldn't have happened.
I don't believe that.

But I suppose maybe if they hadn't let in fundamentalist muslims to settle there and reap all the benefits of the country, these muslims wouldn't want to destroy the things they hate so much about the country (liberty, wealth, power, etc).

It says in the Qur'an that an infidel is your enemy. Make of that what you will.
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Adhsur
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#128
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#128
Kill people in the name of God? I ask that, everyone asks that. What's it got to do with being American anyway....:confused:

And since when is a global good deed done without resistance anyway?
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Masonne
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#129
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#129
sorry im going to continue the debate about hitlers aim in a seperate post as its clogging up this one unnecessarily.
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Made in the USA
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#130
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#130
(Original post by KOH)
[B]
Why Does G.W.Bush kill ppl in the name of Freedom and "Good Life", All over the world?
Freedom is a wonderful alternative to what the Iraqi citizens experienced under Saddam. Bush made the decision to go to war to help people that were oppressed.

I don't think people understand what a noble cause this is. Do you think Saddam was an angel? I think it is a good thing to kill a few to save hundreds of thousands from being tortured to death. Do you know what this man did? Here are some of his his methods of torture seen on video tapes:

Committing rape while the victim's spouse is forced to watch
torture including electric shocks to a male's genitals
pulling out fingernails
suspending individuals from rotating ceiling fans
Pouring boiling water into the victim's rectum
Nailing the tongue to a wooden board
Extracting teeth with pliers
Using bees and scorpions to sting naked children in front of their parents
dumping severed heads at families' doorsteps
prisoners getting fed – alive – to Doberman pinschers
breaking of limbs
amputation
dripping acid on a victim's skin
gouging out eyes
Crucifixion
Spraying insecticides into a victim's eyes
burning victims with a hot iron or blowtorch
amputating the tongues of citizens who criticize him or his government

This is not some big secret. Do a google search and you can even see footage of this sort of thing happening.

Bush is justified in seeing to it that the people responsible for these atrocities are killed. It's for the benefit of the vast majority of the population.
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Made in the USA
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#131
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#131
(Original post by Sire)
I have to agree. If the Americans had left well enough alone, the 9/11 attack wouldn't have happened.
Please tell me what we did to deserve having 3000 of our civilians murdered?
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Made in the USA
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#132
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#132
(Original post by Sire)
I have to agree. If the Americans had left well enough alone, the 9/11 attack wouldn't have happened.
What if someone said "if you left well enough alone, Hitler would not have attacked Britain?"

These people are bent on destroying western civilization. What we do or don't do isn't going to have much of an impact. I just hope Europe doesn't have to get attacked for you all to realize it.
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#133
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#133
(Original post by Made in the USA)
Freedom is a wonderful alternative to what the Iraqi citizens experienced under Saddam. Bush made the decision to go to war to help people that were oppressed.
George Bush himself has bever used the liberaton of the iraq people as a reason to go to war - his reasons, were WMDs and links to Al'Queda and terrorist organsations, the 'liberation' of the iraq people is merely a convenent marketing tool t explain the shortcomings and mistakes makde during the initial justification
(Original post by Made in the USA)
I don't think people understand what a noble cause this is. Do you think Saddam was an angel? I think it is a good thing to kill a few to save hundreds of thousands from being tortured to death. Do you know what this man did?
No one is debating the fact that Sadman was a cruel and unjust despot, howver this alone is not a reason to go to war, the US is not the Police man of the world and as such has no jursdiction to go to war over someone elses crimes in their country.
(Original post by Made in the USA)
Committing rape while the victim's spouse is forced to watch
torture including electric shocks to a male's genitals
pulling out fingernails
suspending individuals from rotating ceiling fans
Pouring boiling water into the victim's rectum
Nailing the tongue to a wooden board
Extracting teeth with pliers
Using bees and scorpions to sting naked children in front of their parents
dumping severed heads at families' doorsteps
prisoners getting fed – alive – to Doberman pinschers
breaking of limbs
amputation
dripping acid on a victim's skin
gouging out eyes
Crucifixion
Spraying insecticides into a victim's eyes
burning victims with a hot iron or blowtorch
amputating the tongues of citizens who criticize him or his government
It seems wrong to mark these things down as irrelevant, but unfortuantely they are, cruelty and torture go on in every on nation earth ruled by dictators and many democtratic ones at that, Bush cannot justify going to war in order to end this suffering without bring justice to the Billions worldwde who live under repression - China???

(Original post by Made in the USA)
Bush is justified in seeing to it that the people responsible for these atrocities are killed.
Why who gves him the justification, is he held responsible to the president of Ertrea for what he does to US citizens? No, becasue that is not the way the world works, you cannot break internatonal laws, invade another country to bring about the downfall of anothe nations leader - in an ideal world maybe, but not in the current world
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Cossack
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#134
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#134
(Original post by Made in the USA)
What if someone said "if you left well enough alone, Hitler would not have attacked Britain?".
Britain joined the war because Chamberlain said that if Poland was invaded Britian would have no choice but retaliate....(it s worth pointing out that Hitler proclaimed a great bond between the people of Britian and Germany and before Britian joined the war there was never any recorded plan of invading Britan - irrelevant however)

(Original post by Made in the USA)
I just hope Europe doesn't have to get attacked for you all to realize it.
errmm...Madrid??? We have been lving wth terrorism in Britian for decades, not on the scale of 9/11 of course but it is not an alien concept to us by any mean, ETA in france and spain etc....I live in Russia where my favourite reastaurant was almost blown up last year, I was on the moscow underground when the terrorist attack killed over a hundred people in, february, I met the Britsh hostages held durng the theatre seige....beng a victim of terrorism is neither a new nor uniquely American experience...
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Made in the USA
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#135
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(Original post by Cossack)
No one is debating the fact that Sadman was a cruel and unjust despot, howver this alone is not a reason to go to war, the US is not the Police man of the world and as such has no jursdiction to go to war over someone elses crimes in their country.
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then. I believe that is is a reason to go to war. I don't think it's right to look the other way when things of this nature are happening. Tens of thousands of people were dying every year in Iraq, WMD wasn't the sole reason we went in there. GWB's speeches made it very clear that this sort of cruelty was going on in Iraq when he sold the war to the American public.
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Made in the USA
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#136
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(Original post by Cossack)
errmm...Madrid??? We have been lving wth terrorism in Britian for decades, not on the scale of 9/11 of course but it is not an alien concept to us by any mean, ETA in france and spain etc....I live in Russia where my favourite reastaurant was almost blown up last year, I was on the moscow underground when the terrorist attack killed over a hundred people in, february, I met the Britsh hostages held durng the theatre seige....beng a victim of terrorism is neither a new nor uniquely American experience...
Yes, but the attack on September 11th was the largest terrorist attack in world history. I know about Spain, and I don't want to downplay it, but I think it is going to take an attack on the same severity as ours, in Europe, before you all recognize the threat that the middle east poses to western civilization. It may never happen, but I fear it will
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Lithium
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#137
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#137
(Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
KOH... do u know what the goals of alqaeda are?

I Know, and i dont say that i agree with that. But one point has to be maid:

Who Run that cell, and who trained him???

HMMMMM
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Cossack
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#138
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#138
(Original post by Made in the USA)
Yes, but the attack on September 11th was the largest terrorist attack in world history. I know about Spain, and I don't want to downplay it, but I think it is going to take an attack on the same severity as ours, in Europe, before you all recognize the threat that the middle east poses to western civilization. It may never happen, but I fear it will
Europeans on the whole are able to look further than the short sighted view evident in the US. When it comes to terrorism, the US rsponse was to launch a war on terror resulting n the invason of two muslim countres and a rapid increase of world wide terrorist activity, perhaps in Europe we attempt to find solutions to problesm so that they might not occur again rather than just go blindly into battle in the hope of gaining some revenge...
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Lithium
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#139
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#139
(Original post by Made in the USA)
Yes, but the attack on September 11th was the largest terrorist attack in world history. I know about Spain, and I don't want to downplay it, but I think it is going to take an attack on the same severity as ours, in Europe, before you all recognize the threat that the middle east poses to western civilization. It may never happen, but I fear it will

Largest Terrosrist attack in history ha?

Ok, let me ask you smthn: How do scale a terror act such as that?

By The Number a deaths/amount of damage? Then, hasnt there been attacks and wars the US has led and killed far more than that.

Another point i want to understand, is that i persoanlly dont hate Americans, I am 3\4 American, But i hate the Americna Goverment, and IF i do hate americans for anything, its thier ignorance!
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Lithium
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#140
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#140
(Original post by Cossack)
go blindly into battle in the hope of gaining some revenge...

or OIL??

WAMD were never found were they?
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