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Diddlylifts; Sumo or Conventional? watch

  • View Poll Results: Diddlylifts; Sumo or Conventional?
    Sumo
    3
    37.50%
    Conventional
    5
    62.50%

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    Pls respond
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    Conventional.

    I don't see any value in sumo unless you are one of those powerlifters who can lift more that way.
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    Conventional

    Only people who pull sumo imo are people wanting to compete at powerlifting

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    Sumo. My back doesn't like conventional though I'd do it if I could
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Conventional.

    I don't see any value in sumo unless you are one of those powerlifters who can lift more that way.
    (Original post by Angry cucumber)
    Conventional

    Only people who pull sumo imo are people wanting to compete at powerlifting

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    See I once thought the same but then I tried sumo for shiggs and it felt like I was snapping my spine up just a little less
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    (Original post by FattyHater)
    See I once thought the same but then I tried sumo for shiggs and it felt like I was snapping my spine up just a little less
    Sumo places less work on the spinal erectors due to the more vertical back angle.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Sumo places less work on the spinal erectors due to the more vertical back angle.
    Surely that's a good thing and, has uses for developing the large muscles of the hip?
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    (Original post by redbuthotter)
    Surely that's a good thing and
    Perhaps not if you want a strong back.

    has uses for developing the large muscles of the hip?
    I don't think so. The glutes and hamstrings are put through a lower range of motion in sumo than in conventional. The adductors are probably working harder in sumo, but if you keep your knees out in squats, they get worked hard then, too.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    Perhaps not if you want a strong back.



    I don't think so. The glutes and hamstrings are put through a lower range of motion in sumo than in conventional. The adductors are probably working harder in sumo, but if you keep your knees out in squats, they get worked hard then, too.
    It's just an exercise, I'd say the only bad thing is the huge learning curve and flexibility requirements.

    All hip muscles are working hugely, probably less lower back like you said, but with big enough weights it just doesn't matter, you'll get excellent development. If I'm sumo 280, conv 250, rack pull 330, I assume my back is reasonably strong. (I didn't train conv to get to 250, it just got stronger by sumo and other lifts).

    It's a relatively safer exercise and targets big muscles. It's like debating front, vs low vs high bar squat. I'm proficient at them all, as I am in sumo and conventional, it's not really an either or situation, unless you're a complete beginner. What's more important is relative progress and attainment in each exercise imo and fixing weaknesses.

    What your goals are I spose are relevant, gets murky for athletic performance... but I don't think that's why we lift or why most people lift, it's just for some fun.
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    (Original post by redbuthotter)
    It's just an exercise, I'd say the only bad thing is the huge learning curve and flexibility requirements.

    All hip muscles are working hugely, probably less lower back like you said, but with big enough weights it just doesn't matter, you'll get excellent development. If I'm sumo 280, conv 250, rack pull 330, I assume my back is reasonably strong. (I didn't train conv to get to 250, it just got stronger by sumo and other lifts).

    It's a relatively safer exercise and targets big muscles. It's like debating front, vs low vs high bar squat. I'm proficient at them all, as I am in sumo and conventional, it's not really an either or situation, unless you're a complete beginner. What's more important is relative progress and attainment in each exercise imo and fixing weaknesses.

    What your goals are I spose are relevant, gets murky for athletic performance... but I don't think that's why we lift or why most people lift, it's just for some fun.
    It's just an exercise, and not one that I would use outside of certain anthropometries (principally, long legs and short back, where a conventional deadlift may require an almost horizontal back angle, or perhaps even with the shoulders below the hips) for the reasons I have described above.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    It's just an exercise, and not one that I would use outside of certain anthropometries (principally, long legs and short back, where a conventional deadlift may require an almost horizontal back angle, or perhaps even with the shoulders below the hips) for the reasons I have described above.
    Fair enough. My contention is that you might see safe gains from increasing performance in one exercise, that will likely be good value.

    You might not, but that's how I approach training personally... hence doing all squats, strict pressing ect....
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    (I'm like 7 years in training man, it's a long time to play with things, row, curl, pressing, pretty much all exercise variations). Plus wonderful injuries to circumvent occasionally.
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    (Original post by redbuthotter)
    Fair enough. My contention is that you might see safe gains from increasing performance in one exercise, that will likely be good value.

    You might not, but that's how I approach training personally... hence doing all squats, strict pressing ect....
    My general take on training is that you figure out what works, and discard what doesn't. Thankfully, however, lots of people have already tried out lots of things, and documented the results for us to learn from. Hence, deadlifts are known to be an extremely useful exercise.

    Sumo deadlifts are still deadlifts, and hence better than no deadlifts (and hence, those who cannot do a conventional deadlift but can sumo, should sumo), but I don't see any value in doing them if I can do conventional instead, unless my body dimensions made my conventional setup ridiculous, or I could lift more weight that way and was a powerlifter, or I was injured. Basically, I think that conventional gives you more bang for your buck, and I think that's important for people who only have a limited time to train, and a limited capacity to recover from training.

    Sumo effectively shortens the range of motion on the deadlift, making it a sort of partial lift. You could make the same arguments I have made above against any partial lift, and that'd be acceptable. We bench to the chest unless we want to work our lockout, for example; the mainstay of our training consists of full ROM lifts. Through decades of experience, we know that the lifts performed in their full ROM variants are better for producing overall strength and muscle mass. And if I wanted to perform a partial deadlift, I would personally opt for the rack pull as it's the same stance as I use to deadlift.
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    (Original post by redbuthotter)
    (I'm like 7 years in training man, it's a long time to play with things, row, curl, pressing, pretty much all exercise variations). Plus wonderful injuries to circumvent occasionally.
    I personally don't think that I have found rows performed strictly to be that useful. Perhaps they're more useful if performed with a bit of body English, like how the bodybuilders and many powerlifters do them. I haven't got round to trying that yet.
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    I lol every time I see someone pull sumo


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    I have a very bad back and I sometimes find sumos can be a little easier on my back, but I can still manage to get injured with sumos so they're not always a great alternative to conventionals if you suffer from lower back problems.
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    (Original post by Smack)
    My general take on training is that you figure out what works, and discard what doesn't. Thankfully, however, lots of people have already tried out lots of things, and documented the results for us to learn from. Hence, deadlifts are known to be an extremely useful exercise.

    Sumo deadlifts are still deadlifts, and hence better than no deadlifts (and hence, those who cannot do a conventional deadlift but can sumo, should sumo), but I don't see any value in doing them if I can do conventional instead, unless my body dimensions made my conventional setup ridiculous, or I could lift more weight that way and was a powerlifter, or I was injured. Basically, I think that conventional gives you more bang for your buck, and I think that's important for people who only have a limited time to train, and a limited capacity to recover from training.

    Sumo effectively shortens the range of motion on the deadlift, making it a sort of partial lift. You could make the same arguments I have made above against any partial lift, and that'd be acceptable. We bench to the chest unless we want to work our lockout, for example; the mainstay of our training consists of full ROM lifts. Through decades of experience, we know that the lifts performed in their full ROM variants are better for producing overall strength and muscle mass. And if I wanted to perform a partial deadlift, I would personally opt for the rack pull as it's the same stance as I use to deadlift.
    'full ROM' is kind of arbitrary on a deadlift though and just comes from the convention of 450mm (I think) plates. By that argument we should all just do deficit deads from the greatest deficit we can manage

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