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Is it harder to get the grades at Oxbridge?

Jools

If you can get a 2i at Oxbridge you could get a 1st at pretty much every other university.

Basically. Notable exceptions being Imperial and LSE which, depending on the course, are possibly tougher than Oxbridge.

Reply 41

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

BazTheMoney

Hmmm. I know some Economists who wouldn't be able to get a First at LSE, but then that's more down to the the strudture of the university/course than the complexity of the work.

I'm not talking about LSE which for many courses is as demanding as Oxford, you used the phrase "pretty much every other university", i.e. largely those 70+ universities below the Russell Group. Someone who gets a 2.2 from Oxford could have got a 1st from an ex-poly. And vice-versa.

I know someone doing Engineering who spent a year at Manchester before transferring to Oxford (don't know why/how). He came 2nd in the yr at Manchester, and ended up near the bottom of the pile at Ox.

Reply 42

shiny

12

Does it really matter? :confused:

Reply 43

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

shiny

Does it really matter? :confused:

Surely it does, it's not fair if someone can get a 1st at an ex-poly with less effort/intelligence than someone who gets a 2.1/2.2 at a top uni, and that this isn't recognised. Surely you need standardised results otherwise qualifications aren't universal. It's like saying it's acceptable for OCR Maths at A-Level to be easier than AQA Maths. Oh, wait...

Reply 44

BazTheMoney

Jools

I'm not talking about LSE which for many courses is as demanding as Oxford, you used the phrase "pretty much every other university", i.e. largely those 70+ universities below the Russell Group. Someone who gets a 2.2 from Oxford could have got a 1st from an ex-poly. And vice-versa.

I know someone doing Engineering who spent a year at Manchester before transferring to Oxford (don't know why/how). He came 2nd in the yr at Manchester, and ended up near the bottom of the pile at Ox.

I was thinking more about the top 30 universities, there's no point in comparing compare Oxford to Salford, for example. I wasn't expecting my original comment to be taken in such a literal sense; and I was leaving myself an escape route, certain people around here seem hell bent on proving others wrong.

Reply 45

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

BazTheMoney

there's no point in comparing compare Oxford to Salford

There's a lot of people who think that a 2.1 from Salford requires the same level of effort/intelligence/work etc than a 2.1 from Oxford.

Reply 46

shiny

12

People from ex-polys who get a First are less intelligent?

Reply 47

BazTheMoney

shiny

People from ex-polys who get a First are less intelligent?

In the most part I would say they are. Of course you have the odd genii there, but I would say as a year group, my year where more intelligent than the finalists at Salford.

Reply 48

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

shiny

People from ex-polys who get a First are less intelligent?

No, I referred to workload/effort/intelligence etc as all the factors, in whatever combination, that result in getting a good degree grade. Don't want to start a whole "how do you measure intelligence" debate again, but yeah, I would say the average person with a 2.1 from Ox is "better" (greater intelligence, stamina, capacity, ability etc) than the average person with a 1st from an ex-poly.

Reply 49

smaug

1

The whole system is unfair and a farce! Nearly everyone agrees that degrees from some universities are better than others, but nobody knows how great the differences are!
Then you get places like Exeter that probably have a better reputation than they deserve with employers, to confuse matters further, and people doing different subjects which vary in difficulty, and others who are able to 'cheat' their way to a good degree (by choosing a language for example when they are already bilingual - i know someone doing this at oxford).

Reply 50

DC_1234

smaug

The whole system is unfair and a farce! Nearly everyone agrees that degrees from some universities are better than others, but nobody knows how great the differences are!
Then you get places like Exeter that probably have a better reputation than they deserve with employers, to confuse matters further, and people doing different subjects which vary in difficulty, and others who are able to 'cheat' their way to a good degree (by choosing a language for example when they are already bilingual - i know someone doing this at oxford).

Is that cheating? It might be a misrepresentation of their ability to cope with new things and take on an academic challenge but at the end of the day someone bilingual that gets a first will have to be capable of the same level or performance as someone that isn't bilingual and gets a first. If the employer views the degree as a high qualification in languages then it isn't cheating, if he views it simply as 'a degree' then it is ( arguably, because they haven't had to work as hard as someone that didn't know the language well to start out with ).

But that's like saying that people who were taught pure mathematics from a very young age are 'cheating' if they take up maths at uni. They tend to be incredibly dull but I wouldn't call it cheating.

Reply 51

lizzylou

Originally posted by Cat
IMHO Oxford degrees are harder

I agree with Cat, from my perspective as a Modern Linguist anyway. Comparing notes with friends at other unis, and working alongside people during my year abroad in classes at the British Council, it seemed quite clear that the Oxbridge people had just covered a lot more ground than the others.

Just for reference, this was my average weekly workload as an undergrad, post Prelims:

1.5 x lit essays (typically 3-4000 words, although often 2000 odd in big handwriting in 8th week!)
1 x French prose
1 x German translation
1 x either a French or a German language essay (2000 words)
Prep for weekly French and German oral classes (either reading or research)

Add on to this trips to read foreign papers or time to watch foreign tv to improve vocab and you have one very heavy workload in term time.

If you then consider that the texts for each term time essay were to be read in the vac, and that each essay required the reading of, on average, three novels, then you have a never ending stream of work. Not to mention a bloomin' expensive book list! :wink:

On top of this, in Final year most people did either an optional dissertation or additional paper... with Finals being 10 or 11 written papers (if my adding up is correct!) and two oral/aural exams...

I rest my case, m'lud. My friends at Soton, Durham and Exeter in particular used to tease me that they had made the right choice and I was a total twonk for choosing the Oxford workload! :redface:

Reply 52

ASNaC

A good friend of mine compared his French and German workload with a friend from his previous school who went to Exeter for the same course, and found that he had done over three times as much reading before Chrismas. His friend complained ahout having to read a passage of Moliere over the holiday, whereas Rich (my friend here) had to read the entire play, along with a couple of other things.

Reply 53

shiny

12

Does it really matter?

Reply 54

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

shiny

Does it really matter?

Yes, it does matter that some people have literally 5+ times as much work as others for the same course and same qualification at the end of it, and that it's often not recognised that BSc(Physics) at Uni A is 5 times harder/ 5 times more work than BSc(Physics) at Uni B.

Reply 55

Acaila

17

So doesn't everyone take the easy route and go to uni B then?

Reply 56

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

Acaila

So doesn't everyone take the easy route and go to uni B then?

Because most people don't know this in advance. For example you're told at Oxbridge you have to work harder and you're prepared for this. What you don't know is that whilst on 3 essays a week your mates at other unis complain "Eugh it's not fair, they've given me a 1,500 essay to do and only a term to do it in!"

Reply 57

Acaila

17

Everyone I know not only thinks Oxbridge is harder, but that it's so far out of their league it makes them feel stupid even thinking about it.
I still don't think your comments are fair to people at other unis. Maybe the workload isn't quite as heavy, but they still work very hard and have every right to be proud of their degrees without being told they're not as good as someone else.

Reply 58

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

Acaila

Everyone I know not only thinks Oxbridge is harder, but that it's so far out of their league it makes them feel stupid even thinking about it.
I still don't think your comments are fair to people at other unis. Maybe the workload isn't quite as heavy, but they still work very hard and have every right to be proud of their degrees without being told they're not as good as someone else.

Well take Oxbridge out of the equation. A 2.1 at Warwick, Nottingham, Edinburgh, Exeter, Reading, Leicester etc requires more work and is harder to get than a 2.1 at unis at the bottom end of the table. And do people "work very hard"? About half the people I know are on 1 essay or less a term, have next to no work to do and are constantly complaining that they're bored.

Reply 59

Acaila

17

I've never heard anyone talking about having one essay a term. Even one a week sounds quite rare.

Where does Glasgow fit in in the Jools table of intellectual snobbery out of interest because my mum I think had 3-5 essays/translations a week to do

Is it harder to get the grades at Oxbridge?

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