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Mad_Monkey59
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#21
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I personally don't agree with the Labours university targets...

University is meant to be an elite form of education seperating the cream from the mass of milk below it... surely setting such high targets, attempting to get so many people into university is de-valueing the whole concept in general.

Employers no longer value graduates as high as they did, graduates are unemployed, graduates aren't certain to get jobs.

Surely high education such as university should be for the elite... and not for everybody... in my opinion labours plans are political correctness gone a step to far.
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operato
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#22
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(Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
I personally don't agree with the Labours university targets...

University is meant to be an elite form of education seperating the cream from the mass of milk below it... surely setting such high targets, attempting to get so many people into university is de-valueing the whole concept in general.

Employers no longer value graduates as high as they did, graduates are unemployed, graduates aren't certain to get jobs.

Surely high education such as university should be for the elite... and not for everybody... in my opinion labours plans are political correctness gone a step to far.
true, we're put into so much stress for something that's not worth that much anymore.
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PQ
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#23
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(Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
I personally don't agree with the Labours university targets...

University is meant to be an elite form of education seperating the cream from the mass of milk below it... surely setting such high targets, attempting to get so many people into university is de-valueing the whole concept in general.

Employers no longer value graduates as high as they did, graduates are unemployed, graduates aren't certain to get jobs.

Surely high education such as university should be for the elite... and not for everybody... in my opinion labours plans are political correctness gone a step to far.
http://www.dfes.gov.uk/hegateway/str...y/expand.shtml
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fishpaste
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#24
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I'm a big fan of the free market for most things, but I think with regards to education and health, people should have access to the same quality of service across the board, regardless of their income. If there are class divisions in healthcare and education, then there are barriers to operation of the free markets of society. But I don't reallythink this is what the government is talking about right now.
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Mad_Monkey59
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What good is being elite accadenically, if every other person is?

Does this not defeat the object of higher education by devalueing it?
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PQ
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#26
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(Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
What good is being elite accadenically, if every other person is?

Does this not defeat the object of higher education by devalueing it?
Are you saying that someone with an HND in business and admin studies is part of the same academic elite as someone with a first in PPE from Oxbridge?

And are you saying that 50% of 18-30 yr olds equates to "every other person"?
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fishpaste
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#27
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Well even if a degree doesn't get you to the same place socially, the skills and knowledge gained will make you a more productive employee who will allow the entire economy to grow/develop. But there's a good argument against that, asking the question "Will somebody's [insert name of subject commonly regarded as mickey mouse] BA from Bolton Institute really benefit society?"
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Mad_Monkey59
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#28
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50% is every other person...

Im saying if you have 'DDE' you shouldnt be in university...

University should be for the elite, A-levels should be for the elite...

perhaps if labour wasn't trying to cram everyone into higher education we wouldn't have the problems with universitys we currently do...

Higher education has lost much of the respect it once had...
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operato
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#29
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#29
(Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
50% is every other person...

Im saying if you have 'DDE' you shouldnt be in university...

University should be for the elite, A-levels should be for the elite...

perhaps if labour wasn't trying to cram everyone into higher education we wouldn't have the problems with universitys we currently do...

Higher education has lost much of the respect it once had...
that's not entirely fair to be honest :/ they've messed up A levels with the introduction of the AS level, i don't believe that they should allow people do do "mickey mouse" subjects as fishpaste said.
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Mad_Monkey59
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#30
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They have messed up education altogether... IMO
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PQ
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#31
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(Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
50% is every other person...
Me + every other person = 100%
Me + every second(or other) person = 50%
Use ambiguous language and your meaning will be misunderstood.

Im saying if you have 'DDE' you shouldnt be in university...
I'll be sure to tell my sister that her A levels and dergee were a waste of her time....I'm sure she'll laugh her head off when she goes back to her graduate level job in September after 6 months maternity leave.

University should be for the elite, A-levels should be for the elite...
It's a shame that the tory's turned all of the poly's into universities then...

perhaps if labour wasn't trying to cram everyone into higher education we wouldn't have the problems with universitys we currently do...

Higher education has lost much of the respect it once had...
Mainly due to the unchecked and unfunded expansion between 92 and 97 (which labour halted when they came into power).

Labour put on the breaks, allowed only science based courses expansion between 97 and 2001 and has allowed growth only in 2 yr vocational foundation degree since then. The 50% target will be reached through FD students/graduates.

Please feel free to read the white paper and come up with some arguements against the case made there instead of trying to pin Conservative goevrnment mistakes onto Labour.

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Vienna
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#32
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(Original post by Mad_Monkey59)
50% is every other person...

Im saying if you have 'DDE' you shouldnt be in university...

University should be for the elite, A-levels should be for the elite...

perhaps if labour wasn't trying to cram everyone into higher education we wouldn't have the problems with universitys we currently do...

Higher education has lost much of the respect it once had...
my instinct cant disagree with that.
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fishpaste
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#33
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(Original post by Mad_Monkey59)

Higher education has lost much of the respect it once had...
But going back to Pencil Queen's point, so what, nobody ever said the media degree from Bolton was going to be regarded in the same context as a PPE degree from Oxford.

The government isn't so thickle they think cramming people into new unis will equip them with the same job opportunities as the people graduating from the top end, they just think that any education will benefit society.
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Vienna
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#34
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(Original post by Pencil Queen)
I'll be sure to tell my sister that her A levels and dergee were a waste of her time....I'm sure she'll laugh her head off when she goes back to her graduate level job in September after 6 months maternity leave.
i think she would admit she is one of the luckier ones.

It's a shame that the tory's turned all of the poly's into universities then...
i would say so.
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Vienna
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#35
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(Original post by fishpaste)
any education will benefit society.
how?
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PQ
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#36
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(Original post by vienna95)
i think she would admit she is one of the luckier ones.
Most of her fellow rgaduates from Woverhampton Uni (commonly known as wolly poly) are in a similar situation.

While I know far too many people who graduated alongside me from Southampton who're still unemployed because they're unwilling to get ANY work experience to demonstrate their employability.

Snobbery doesn't in general make a good employee.
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shiny
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#37
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SuperShiny does a fly by
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PQ
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#38
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Anyhoo - the HE debate has little to do with the proposals for primary and secondary education...and I'm off home for the weekend.

Have fun people
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shiny
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#39
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#39
* SuperShiny waves to PQ *
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Vienna
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#40
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(Original post by Pencil Queen)
Most of her fellow rgaduates from Woverhampton Uni (commonly known as wolly poly) are in a similar situation.
what situation is that.
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