Latest YouGov polls - Remain back in lead by 1%
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Original post by Sun_Bear
RELEASED 5 MINS AGO
Remain: 44% (-)
Leave: 45% (+1)
(via Opinium, online / 20 - 22 Jun)
****ing come on lads we can do this just need to go to the polls now
Remain: 44% (-)
Leave: 45% (+1)
(via Opinium, online / 20 - 22 Jun)
****ing come on lads we can do this just need to go to the polls now
The Comres at 2200 is more important
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Original post by Rakas21
Was the previous Opinium pre shooting? That could indicate the weekends remain boost is totally gone.
It was a few days ago for the telegraph IIRC
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Original post by Rakas21
Was the previous Opinium pre shooting? That could indicate the weekends remain boost is totally gone.
Correction, 14-17 so bridged the shooting, but vast majority before shooting, something like only 10pc after
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Original post by Good bloke
No response? Not even an "Oops, I should read more carefully" or an "I should know a bit more about subjects I make statements about"?
Studentroom has been going up and down and I'm also at work, so no, I wasn't avoiding a response.
I think it's clear that there was a referendum - the circumstances may not be to your total liking and I accept that the original 'In' wasn't triggered by a referendum - but that doesn't make it 'undemocratic' - it was voted through by our parliament.
Personally I don't like referendums anyway and they don't fit well with British constitutional arrangements - Parliament is meant to be supreme in our system. As we will discover when, if there is a Leave vote, Parliament sets out to ignore it or thwart it over the coming years.
Original post by Rakas21
Was the previous Opinium pre shooting? That could indicate the weekends remain boost is totally gone.
They all seem pretty close, basically 50/50.
Imagine if the answer is Remain or Leave by just a few thousand or even hundred votes. What then??
Original post by Fullofsurprises
They all seem pretty close, basically 50/50.
Imagine if the answer is Remain or Leave by just a few thousand or even hundred votes. What then??
Imagine if the answer is Remain or Leave by just a few thousand or even hundred votes. What then??
UKIP will complain about postal vote fraud.
Original post by ZeroFree
UKIP will complain about postal vote fraud.
Lol, yes, they will insist that refugees have been given votes or that only Tories should be allowed a vote in future.
If it is Remain, it will be approximately 3 weeks before Farage, Gove and Duncan-Smug are demanding another referendum.
Original post by ZeroFree
UKIP will complain about postal vote fraud.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Lol, yes, they will insist that refugees have been given votes or that only Tories should be allowed a vote in future.
If it is Remain, it will be approximately 3 weeks before Farage, Gove and Duncan-Smug are demanding another referendum.
If it is Remain, it will be approximately 3 weeks before Farage, Gove and Duncan-Smug are demanding another referendum.
Well 28% do believe it will be rigged, and only 48% that it won't
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Original post by Audrey18
@ZeroFree
You might want to take a look at this video. This American student makes valid points about Brexit.
[video="youtube;m0UoaohpJKI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0UoaohpJKI[/video]
You might want to take a look at this video. This American student makes valid points about Brexit.
[video="youtube;m0UoaohpJKI"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0UoaohpJKI[/video]
"There's definitely going to be negative economic ramifications from leaving".
Agreed.
Original post by Sun_Bear
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-36596060
*Poof* goes remainers main argument in smoke... Shame that news sites are not willing to give this as much attention as the fall of western civilisation by Donald Tusk.
*Poof* goes remainers main argument in smoke... Shame that news sites are not willing to give this as much attention as the fall of western civilisation by Donald Tusk.
Donald Tusk is okay. He's called for an abandonment of the dream of European federalism and centralisation. More recently, Sarkozy has argued that we need a two-tier (not two-speed, suggesting a like destination) Europe, with integration for the Eurozone and a return of power for those outside. Unfortunately the EU is more full of Jean-Claude Junckers than these people.
Original post by Fullofsurprises
why should it not also operate at an international level, as it does with the EU Parliament?Why should democracy be limited to nation states?
Why, in a continent with wildly divergent political opinion, from socialist southern Europe to the more free-market minded states of the UK and the Netherlands, would you think it appropriate for matters such as employment regulation to be decided in a one-size-fits-all manner from Brussels?
Original post by Fullofsurprises
I think it's clear that there was a referendum - the circumstances may not be to your total liking and I accept that the original 'In' wasn't triggered by a referendum - but that doesn't make it 'undemocratic' - it was voted through by our parliament.
But not the referendum you claimed when you misleadingly stated, woefully ignorant of the history of Britain joining the EU:
Original post by Fullofsurprises
The UK took the decision to share sovereignty via a referendum.
No action on the EU has previously been tested in a referendum in advance of the action, in fact. As I said earlier.
In fact, Britain was sold a pup in the 1970s. We were told a huge lie, that we were joining a trading bloc, and the ever-closer union goals were not disclosed, though, decades later, Heath and Rippon dishonestly claimed they had been.
The lie had not been revealed by the time of the 1975 referendum either, of course, or the result of that would have been rather different.
http://www.theeuroprobe.org/edward-heath-and-a-letter-from-the-foriegn-commonwealth-office-1972/
So on this contention that the UK has such a small share of votes in the EU that it's not worth having it, and therefore the UK is better off out...
Let's do a little scenario; let's just say the UK remains in the EU. And a few years down the line there's a potential far-right (or far left, it doesn't matter) takeover of the EU with some countries already under extreme governments.
Now consider what happens when a potentially very contentious vote arises. Noting that for whatever reason we can't use our veto for some reason.
The voting blocks across other countries are evenly matched.
The vote is standing at 46% moderate - they want to maintain the status quo.
Versus 47% extremist - they want to impose this significant change. A change that would fundamentally change the way the EU operates. Potentially with huge socio-political and economic effects. So it looks like the extremists have the majority. They are 1% ahead.
But the UK is sitting there holding a small vote. It's not much but it's the remaining 7%.
Kapoow! They exercise their 7% and save the day for the moderates.
Hmmm, a bit like the Referendum perhaps. I'm pretty sure either Remain or Leave would be extremely pleased to have a 7% block on their side tomorrow.
Don't ya think...
Vote Leave if you want to have no influence over the future direction of the EU.
Or Vote REMAIN. And continue to play your part in the future.
Let's do a little scenario; let's just say the UK remains in the EU. And a few years down the line there's a potential far-right (or far left, it doesn't matter) takeover of the EU with some countries already under extreme governments.
Now consider what happens when a potentially very contentious vote arises. Noting that for whatever reason we can't use our veto for some reason.
The voting blocks across other countries are evenly matched.
The vote is standing at 46% moderate - they want to maintain the status quo.
Versus 47% extremist - they want to impose this significant change. A change that would fundamentally change the way the EU operates. Potentially with huge socio-political and economic effects. So it looks like the extremists have the majority. They are 1% ahead.
But the UK is sitting there holding a small vote. It's not much but it's the remaining 7%.
Kapoow! They exercise their 7% and save the day for the moderates.
Hmmm, a bit like the Referendum perhaps. I'm pretty sure either Remain or Leave would be extremely pleased to have a 7% block on their side tomorrow.
Don't ya think...
Vote Leave if you want to have no influence over the future direction of the EU.
Or Vote REMAIN. And continue to play your part in the future.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Fullofsurprises
Lol, yes, they will insist that refugees have been given votes or that only Tories should be allowed a vote in future.
If it is Remain, it will be approximately 3 weeks before Farage, Gove and Duncan-Smug are demanding another referendum.
If it is Remain, it will be approximately 3 weeks before Farage, Gove and Duncan-Smug are demanding another referendum.
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It will be about three minutes before Farage is claiming the vote is rigged.
Original post by Bornblue
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It will be about three minutes before Farage is claiming the vote is rigged.
It will be about three minutes before Farage is claiming the vote is rigged.
As Joseph Stalin said: The people who cast the votes decide nothing; the people who count the votes decide everything.
Let's hope that, should the vote be in favour of exit, the government won't be so brazen as to call for another, as they did in Ireland over Maastricht.
(edited 7 years ago)
Original post by Good bloke
As Joseph Stalin said: The people who cast the votes decide nothing; the people who count the votes decide everything.
Let's hope that, should the vote be in favour of exit, the government won't be so brazen as to call for another, as they did in Ireland over Maastricht.
Let's hope that, should the vote be in favour of exit, the government won't be so brazen as to call for another, as they did in Ireland over Maastricht.
It wouldn't be another referendum, the plan would be to sound supportive whilst making it look bad in practice (which won't be hard) to a point where the clamour to rethink takes hold.
There is only a minority for Leave in Parliament, so it will probably fall at the first hurdle anyway.
Original post by Good bloke
As Joseph Stalin said: The people who cast the votes decide nothing; the people who count the votes decide everything.
Let's hope that, should the vote be in favour of exit, the government won't be so brazen as to call for another, as they did in Ireland over Maastricht.
Let's hope that, should the vote be in favour of exit, the government won't be so brazen as to call for another, as they did in Ireland over Maastricht.
Almost certainly.
Original post by Good bloke
As Joseph Stalin said: The people who cast the votes decide nothing; the people who count the votes decide everything.
Let's hope that, should the vote be in favour of exit, the government won't be so brazen as to call for another, as they did in Ireland over Maastricht.
Let's hope that, should the vote be in favour of exit, the government won't be so brazen as to call for another, as they did in Ireland over Maastricht.
Another brexiter with a victim mentality who thinks the vote will be rigged.
Pathetic. Grow up.
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Original post by jneill
So Leave wants the populace to ignore "experts" (economists, scientists, business leaders, the IMF, etc, etc, etc) because this is a political decision and "experts" can only advise and are not ultimately responsible for the decision making.
Unlike democratically elected representatives.
Unlike democratically elected representatives.
Funny you bring up such a thing when we have no proportional representation.
Also funny that it's all about economics for you. Personally, I wont be bribed to sell our independence tomorrow.
Despite being a Leave voter, I just can't see the UK voting for exit from the EU. It'll be tight, no doubt about it. But I do think that there's too much fear of the unknown (I don't blame either Remain or Leave for that; no-one can predict the future all that well) & I see the status quo holding.
In terms of best case scenarios that I personally would like:
1. The UK leaving & setting up a free trade deal with the EU & other nations while being burdened with less regulation/less loss of sovereignty.
Or
2. Due to the close result & demand from other EU nations for referendums, the EU agrees to reforms that move it back towards a Free Trade Bloc rather than a quasi political-judicial-economic organisation.
I think the vote will be 52% Remain, 48% Leave.
In terms of best case scenarios that I personally would like:
1. The UK leaving & setting up a free trade deal with the EU & other nations while being burdened with less regulation/less loss of sovereignty.
Or
2. Due to the close result & demand from other EU nations for referendums, the EU agrees to reforms that move it back towards a Free Trade Bloc rather than a quasi political-judicial-economic organisation.
I think the vote will be 52% Remain, 48% Leave.
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