Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

The left-wing case for Brexit watch

Announcements
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    An excellent article (written at short notice) by Professor Alan Johnson making the left-wing case for Brexit. His arguments are extremely persuasive. As a socialist one of the more persuasive was his bringing up the Viking and Laval cases in which the European Court of Justice subordinated workers' right to strike to business' "right of establishment".

    http://hurryupharry.org/2016/06/20/w...-alan-johnson/

    Neoliberalism is built into the fabric of the European Union. Its democratic deficit is profound. And the hysterical, doom-laden claims that the Euro elite will put 6.5 million mainland European jobs that are dependent on export to the British market at risk in order to punish Britain is laughable. The UK is already entitled to low-tariff trading with the European Union anyway as they are both members of the World Trade Organisation.

    The fearmongering and the threats (is that any way to treat a friend and an ally?) against Britain are baseless. Anyone who values the possibility of future socialist reform should vote for a Brexit because such reforms will always be impossible under the unaccountable, corporate-dominated European Commission
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    It is odd. The fact that if we left and labour got in (and even worse if Corbyn got in) it could turn the UK into an unadulterated lefty socialist nightmare is one of the things which keeps me ambivalent about which to vote for.
    Offline

    10
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Thutmose-III)
    An excellent article (written at short notice) by Professor Alan Johnson making the left-wing case for Brexit. His arguments are extremely persuasive. As a socialist one of the more persuasive was his bringing up the Viking and Laval cases in which the European Court of Justice subordinated workers' right to strike to business' "right of establishment".

    http://hurryupharry.org/2016/06/20/w...-alan-johnson/

    Neoliberalism is built into the fabric of the European Union. Its democratic deficit is profound. And the hysterical, doom-laden claims that the Euro elite will put 6.5 million mainland European jobs that are dependent on export to the British market at risk in order to punish Britain is laughable. The UK is already entitled to low-tariff trading with the European Union anyway as they are both members of the World Trade Organisation.

    The fearmongering and the threats (is that any way to treat a friend and an ally?) against Britain are baseless. Anyone who values the possibility of future socialist reform should vote for a Brexit because such reforms will always be impossible under the unaccountable, corporate-dominated European Commission
    Project fear unfortunately has been masterful in execution.

    Play up the doom & gloom, and constantly make character attacks against easy targets such as the inept Leave leadership and the skinhead crew, trying to paint the whole campaign/Brexit support base with the same brush.

    It smells like those awful stereotypical US political ads.
    "Senator Baby-eater might support resolution 5, but he also eats babies, how many other resolution 5 supporters also eat babies?"....*dark clouds and ominous music*

    TBF I wouldn't have expected them to do anything like admit the valid criticisms of the EU (which are many and quite serious), so I guess a "well played" is in order, albeit their conduct bothers me.

    Also Jo Cox's murder was really unhelpful. And very poorly (or well) timed. The hard facts is that a bigoted mentally ill moron killed by all accounts a decent hard-working woman, and children will be going without her now.

    Unfortunately for the leave campaign though many people will likely let their imaginations go wild assuming that every last one of us Brexiteers are equally deranged psychos with malicious designs on anyone with a brown hue.

    The best I can sooth myself with is knowing that even in the case of a Remain win, the issue will inevitably come back, since Britain won;t be able to get any reforms it'll still want, and the EU is still moving towards an oligarchical superstate that moderate rational Brits have no interest in.
    --------------------------------------------------------

    (Original post by KingBradly)
    It is odd. The fact that if we left and labour got in (and even worse if Corbyn got in) it could turn the UK into an unadulterated lefty socialist nightmare is one of the things which keeps me ambivalent about which to vote for.
    Look at it this way: Would you rather risk the chance of a neo-communist Corbynista government for 5 years, or be assured of the unending EU neoliberal oligarchy? (I.E. the Blairist Nu-Labour.).

    It's the same argument I used during the Scottish Indyref when people claimed they were going to vote Yes because there's a Tory government.

    Labour, just like Tories, can be voted out.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    Labour could learn a thing or two from Tony Benn

    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    Tony Benn was anti EU?
    I did not know that
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by KingBradly)
    It is odd. The fact that if we left and labour got in (and even worse if Corbyn got in) it could turn the UK into an unadulterated lefty socialist nightmare is one of the things which keeps me ambivalent about which to vote for.
    Doesn't it speak volumes about the EU that you rely on them to mitigate democracy to ensure you don't have to face your opponents on a level playing field?

    You do realise, by the way, that they play that trick on both sides. They say to left-wing people that you have to remain in the EU otherwise the right might get into power and bring in a truly conservative government. The reality is that most democratic countries don't require a supranational body to supervise their democracy. Canada, Australia and New Zealand seem to manage it just fine, though in some ways I can understand if your position is that the historically subordinate position of English non-upper class people means perhaps they are less used and less suited to such exercises of power compared to their colonial brethren

    As for "unadulterated lefty socialist nightmare", that is faintly hysterical, don't you think? We've had four postwar Labour governments. Three of the four (Attlee, Wilson 64-70 and Blair) are broadly recognised to have been pretty good; introduced important reforms, modernised the country etc. The one that was a bit rubbish (Wilson/Callaghan 74-79) was ineffectual but it didn't exactly bring in a hard left revolution. Ultimately things turn out okay because people are in charge and people are generally pretty moderate.

    As for Corbyn, he'll be out of power before 2020 or Labour will lose the election. We have a safeguard called "the British electorate". We don't need European Commissioners to "protect" us from it.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Hachik0)
    Labour could learn a thing or two from Tony Benn
    Tony Benn was a self-absorbed idiot. He almost destroyed the Labour Party for his own vanity. But he was right on Europe
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Studentus-anonymous)
    It smells like those awful stereotypical US political ads.
    "Senator Baby-eater might support resolution 5, but he also eats babies, how many other resolution 5 supporters also eat babies?"....*dark clouds and ominous music*
    It's funny because it's true :lol:
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    EU is dictatorship
    Offline

    2
    ReputationRep:
    yeah no.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you like carrot cake?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.