Last chance to Leave! This Referendum will not be repeated. Watch

newpersonage
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All the political parties support Remain except UKIP. If we vote Remain Labour and Tory will not give the UK voters another Referendum.

If the UK joins the Euro after Eurozone political union in 2025 the Government will maintain that we have had our referendum. ( See http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...EX:52015DC0600 ).
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Plantagenet Crown
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#2
Vote Remain.
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Rampage
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#3
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#3
Vote Leave!

Enough is enough
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Cecily Neville
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Vote leave ! Let's get out of this bureaucratic hell hole.

EDIT: this was a tongue in cheek post and I voted remain, for anyone stalking my post history to somehow make themselves feel better smh.
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newpersonage
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(Original post by Plantagenet Crown)
Vote Remain.
Only if you want to be part of a political union governed from Brussels and are happy that independence is denied to UK citizens forever. (Check the link in the OP. The Eurozone is going to be a political union, it will control 90% of the vote in the EU and the UK will have to either leave or join the Eurozone).
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JordanL_
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(Original post by Rampage)
Vote Leave!

Enough is enough
Enough what? Enough consumer rights? Enough economic growth????
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Elivercury
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Why exactly is another referendum not going to happen if things change dramatically in 8 years time?
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dskinner
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(Original post by Rampage)
Vote Leave!

Enough is enough
(Original post by Cecily Neville)
Vote leave ! Let's get out of this bureaucratic hell hole.
or y'know we could stay

how do you know for certain that leaving will bring greater benefits than staying???
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Duncan2012
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That is one scary link. United States of Europe here we come. That's what a Remain vote will lead to.
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Ordo
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Government will take care of it - your vote wont count
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Platopus
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(Original post by newpersonage)
All the political parties support Remain except UKIP. If we vote Remain Labour and Tory will not give the UK voters another Referendum.

If the UK joins the Euro after Eurozone political union in 2025 the Government will maintain that we have had our referendum. ( See http://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-conte...EX:52015DC0600 ).
I thought we were guaranteed not to join the Euro? And what is the Eurozone political union? Sorry, I'm an idiot but I really want to know, can you please explain? Thanks.
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newpersonage
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(Original post by Platopus)
I thought we were guaranteed not to join the Euro? And what is the Eurozone political union? Sorry, I'm an idiot but I really want to know, can you please explain? Thanks.
Basically the Eurozone has been dealing with the crisis by increasing unity. There have been a whole raft of treaties and pacts to move towards full union: the "Stability and Growth Pact", the "Six pack", the Fiscal Compact", the "Two Pack", the "Europlus Pact" and the "5 Presidents Report" on a route map to implementing full political union as specified in all these pacts. All parties are agreed that the solution to the Eurozone crisis is full political union.

None of this has been covered much in the UK press. It has been suppressed during the referendum.

Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor said:

"we need a political union first and foremost" (BBC News).
Francois Hollande, the French president said:

"Political union is the step that follows fiscal union, banking union, and social union. It will provide a democratic framework for successful integration." (Le Monde)

President Sergio Mattarella of Italy's inaugural speech Feb 2015:

"The EU is now once again a perspective of hope andtrue political union to be relaunched without delay."

Mariano Rajoy Brey, Spanish prime minister:

"We need to fix these objectives - fiscal union, banking union, political union...And we must set a time scale. We are giving a message that we really want greater European integration. We can't say something is this first, then something else, without saying where we're going," Rajoy said at a news conference with Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti. (Reuters report).

What the European Commission says:

José Manuel Durão Barroso, President of the European Commission said:

"This is why the Economic and Monetary Union raises the question of a political union and the European democracy that must underpin it."...

When the Eurozone is a political union we will either have to leave or join them. Cameron's exemption from "Ever closer union" is absolutely meaningless.
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Platopus
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(Original post by newpersonage)
Basically the Eurozone has been dealing with the crisis by increasing unity. There have been a whole raft of treaties and pacts to move towards full union: the "Stability and Growth Pact", the "Six pack", the Fiscal Compact", the "Two Pack", the "Europlus Pact" and the "5 Presidents Report" on a route map to implementing full political union as specified in all these pacts. All parties are agreed that the solution to the Eurozone crisis is full political union.

None of this has been covered much in the UK press. It has been suppressed during the referendum.

Angela Merkel, the German Chancellor said:

"we need a political union first and foremost" (BBC News).
Francois Hollande, the French president said:

"Political union is the step that follows fiscal union, banking union, and social union. It will provide a democratic framework for successful integration." (Le Monde)

President Sergio Mattarella of Italy's inaugural speech Feb 2015:

"The EU is now once again a perspective of hope andtrue political union to be relaunched without delay."

Mariano Rajoy Brey, Spanish prime minister:

"We need to fix these objectives - fiscal union, banking union, political union...And we must set a time scale. We are giving a message that we really want greater European integration. We can't say something is this first, then something else, without saying where we're going," Rajoy said at a news conference with Italian Prime Minister Mario Monti. (Reuters report).

What the European Commission says:

José Manuel Durão Barroso, President of the European Commission said:

"This is why the Economic and Monetary Union raises the question of a political union and the European democracy that must underpin it."...

When the Eurozone is a political union we will either have to leave or join them. Cameron's exemption from "Ever closer union" is absolutely meaningless.
Thank you for explaining. So, would the EU become like a big superstate? That sounds scary and I don't think I want that.
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MagicNMedicine
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(Original post by Platopus)
Thank you for explaining. So, would the EU become like a big superstate? That sounds scary and I don't think I want that.
I'm a leave supporter but I think newpersonage has exaggerated this. There's a push to get closer union within the Eurozone because it's a single currency area but the UK will be on the outside of that, even if we remain.

One of the main reasons the Euro has been a problematic currency is that it is a single currency with 19 different governments which don't have any mechanism for risk sharing or redistributing wealth through taxes from richer areas to poorer areas. In the US, which has a single currency (the dollar) across all 50 states, if there's a major shock like a banking crash or an industry collapses in one state, then that state isn't stuck dealing with it on its own you have a federal government to absorb the shock by redistributing funds from other regions. Right back when the Euro was launched this was a problem people saw with it and it has been true so if they are going to press ahead with it then the countries of the Eurozone need to move to closer union and make it more like the USA with some sort of wider federal institutions and then the national governments being like the US states.

The UK isn't going to join the Euro and the push for getting new countries in the Euro has gone away now given the problems, they are looking to consolidate what they have. In fact if the UK suddenly decided it wanted to join the Euro, I bet the Eurozone countries would put a lot of conditions and tests on the UK's potential membership.

So I think if the UK remains, it will be in the second tier of the EU, along with Denmark, Sweden etc who are outside the Eurozone. These countries will be in the EU, single market and so on but when it comes to the direction of the EU and the priorities, most EU countries are in the Eurozone and will be focused more on making that work so decisions in the EU will be dictated by what suits the Eurozone countries first and foremost. Yes we hear about "showing British leadership" but to the Eurozone countries the UK is staying on the outside, its like being at uni and most people are in halls and then you get the student who commutes from home who starts trying to muscle in on the social events, he might get invited along but he's unlikely to be setting the agenda for nights out.

I agree with the OP that this is probably a one off chance in the foreseeable future for getting out of the EU. I will be voting leave - mainly for the argument of democracy and sovereignty, but what is a shame from the leave side is that they have spend years demanding a referendum, challenging the pro-EU consensus politicians to "let the British people decide", and now they have got that referendum they have fought a generally dismal campaign dominated by spurious claims (which Remain has also done tbf) and stirring up resentment against immigrants. They have tried to turn it in to a referendum on immigration and have missed the essence of the fact this is a debate on a constitutional change - do we decide our laws in a UK parliament where our lawmakers are directly elected by constituents, or hand over large parts of sovereignty to a fairly undemocratic bureaucracy as a trade off for getting quick convenient access to a large export market.
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Bryci
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Remain all the way.
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Platopus
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(Original post by MagicNMedicine)
I'm a leave supporter but I think newpersonage has exaggerated this. There's a push to get closer union within the Eurozone because it's a single currency area but the UK will be on the outside of that, even if we remain.

One of the main reasons the Euro has been a problematic currency is that it is a single currency with 19 different governments which don't have any mechanism for risk sharing or redistributing wealth through taxes from richer areas to poorer areas. In the US, which has a single currency (the dollar) across all 50 states, if there's a major shock like a banking crash or an industry collapses in one state, then that state isn't stuck dealing with it on its own you have a federal government to absorb the shock by redistributing funds from other regions. Right back when the Euro was launched this was a problem people saw with it and it has been true so if they are going to press ahead with it then the countries of the Eurozone need to move to closer union and make it more like the USA with some sort of wider federal institutions and then the national governments being like the US states.

The UK isn't going to join the Euro and the push for getting new countries in the Euro has gone away now given the problems, they are looking to consolidate what they have. In fact if the UK suddenly decided it wanted to join the Euro, I bet the Eurozone countries would put a lot of conditions and tests on the UK's potential membership.

So I think if the UK remains, it will be in the second tier of the EU, along with Denmark, Sweden etc who are outside the Eurozone. These countries will be in the EU, single market and so on but when it comes to the direction of the EU and the priorities, most EU countries are in the Eurozone and will be focused more on making that work so decisions in the EU will be dictated by what suits the Eurozone countries first and foremost. Yes we hear about "showing British leadership" but to the Eurozone countries the UK is staying on the outside, its like being at uni and most people are in halls and then you get the student who commutes from home who starts trying to muscle in on the social events, he might get invited along but he's unlikely to be setting the agenda for nights out.

I agree with the OP that this is probably a one off chance in the foreseeable future for getting out of the EU. I will be voting leave - mainly for the argument of democracy and sovereignty, but what is a shame from the leave side is that they have spend years demanding a referendum, challenging the pro-EU consensus politicians to "let the British people decide", and now they have got that referendum they have fought a generally dismal campaign dominated by spurious claims (which Remain has also done tbf) and stirring up resentment against immigrants. They have tried to turn it in to a referendum on immigration and have missed the essence of the fact this is a debate on a constitutional change - do we decide our laws in a UK parliament where our lawmakers are directly elected by constituents, or hand over large parts of sovereignty to a fairly undemocratic bureaucracy as a trade off for getting quick convenient access to a large export market.
Thanks so much for your reply! I do feel very uneducated on this. It's shameful of me not to know more, really.
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drogon
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Just going to leave this here.
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Ladymusiclover
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I know a lot of young people will vote remain but nope I'm voting out and that doesn't make me a far right racist btw. VOTING OUT C'MON.
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DonTSR123
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Leaving is the most illogical thing ever. The UK don't have anything that will allow the economy to stay afloat. America doesn't want to make new trade deals nor do emerging economies. The UK is known for its financial services which is mainly made up of transnational firms who would re-locate to Europe. This referedum was a political popularity stunt and it will bite David Cameron in the backside.
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Audrey18
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newpersonage Rampage Cecily Neville Duncan2012 MagicNMedicine

If UK leaves the EU, EU will collapse. Cos UK is essentially financing the entire EU with the strong £ against the failed €. Do you recall the George Osbourne tax rebate fiasco from 2 years ago? EU slapped a £1.7 billion on UK but Cameron vowed that he would not pay it. What happened in the end? UK still paid up and did so quietly.
http://www.bbc.com/news/business-29751124
http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-e...u-budget-bill/
http://www.euractiv.com/section/uk-e...n-budget-bill/
http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...ember-deadline
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...happening.html

Yesterday, the German finance minister said he would cry if UK voted Brexit. Of course he would! Cos UK is the one funding the EU and Germany gets to dictate who gets the money and what to do with it.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/politi...-EU-referendum
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world...718_story.html
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/bu...-a6909616.html

Please understand that Germany controls the EU and dictates to the other member states when to stand up and when to sit down. France is her close ally despite their colourful history.

If UK leaves, then the other poorer member states would want to follow suit. Do you recall last year when EU forced Greece to accept a humongous financial bailout which EU knew Greece would never be able to repay back cos the interests were just too high? and the greek banks allowed its citizens to withdraw only €120 per week? When this news first broke out in Greece, its citizens queued up outside the bank to withdraw their monies but the banks were shut. Do you recall this man who cried outside the bank and this image went viral?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...ing-man-banks/



If UK leaves then many EU citizens working in the UK and living off benefits will have to return back to their home countries. These EU citizens based in UK, don't want this to happen because UK is the only country in EU that offers such amazing benefits.

Many of the lecturers in the UK unis are also against Brexit because if UK pulls out of it then these lecturers will have to return back to their home countries and re-apply via a work permit system. So far nothing unusual? The catch here is that these lecturers of EU origin will have to compete for lecturing jobs with equally abled or far better lecturers from New Zealand, Canada, Australia, India, Hong Kong and Singapore. This is the reason why many lecturers have been writing articles and blogs online to plead with UK citizens to vote in their favour. How selfish!

If you have studied politics at A-level or at uni, depending on who your lecturer is and which textbook you're reading, you will know that ever since UK joined the EU, she has given away her sovereignty to the unelected bureaucrats in Brussels and Luxembourg. I can't help but wonder why UK still needs a Supreme Court when its no longer supreme and a British parliament when it's no longer sovereign?

Do you know that millions of British soldiers have died in several wars over the centuries to protect Queen and country? But Tony Blair let these millions of soldier died in vain because when he was in power for 10 years or so as the Prime Minister of UK, he allowed virtually everyone to enter the UK
  • without checking if they are holding genuine passports
  • without checking if they have links to terrorist groups
  • without checking if they have criminal records in their home countries
  • without checking if they have genuine educational qualifications or a trade skill
  • without checking if they have HIV/AIDS
Someone recently asked me why should people wanting to enter into another country, be checked for HIV/AIDS? This is because the government owes a duty to its citizens to protect them from people who may want to infect others with their communicable diseases. This is an extension of a 'social contract theory'. Read up on it if you have time. Educate yourself.


I'm German. As you know, many migrant men raped, molested and sexually abused many women in my country since New Year's Day.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-35231046
http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...ks-list-crimes
http://www.news.com.au/finance/econo...d65045e65e141d

This is the list of sex crimes against German women in one night. I hope you have a strong stomach for this.
http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016...-sex-assaults/

You only have to see what the German police commissioner said on national TV to understand the true extent of the migrant crisis. Mind you, the higher command in Germany gave him a piece of their mind following the telecast of this interview. Watch it to believe it.



I hope all of you reading my post, bears this in mind. A country's sovereignty, security and safety of its citizens is so important. With Merkel's blunder, we have become a carbon copy of UK & the rest of EU and their set of problems.

Merkel has been in hiding for many months now. She's pushing 62 years of age. She won't throw in the towel just yet. If UK decides to remain in the EU, I am certain they will make EU into a united states of Europe and she would be the major contender for the post of PM of the USE. Tony Blair has quietened down way too much to be able to stake a claim for that coveted position.

Merkel studied physics and then chemistry. She has no knowledge and understanding about politics, law, finance and sociology. She tells the German public one thing and tells the EU another thing and then tells the world another thing. Sometime back she said that refugees must now return back to their countries of origin after the wars back home have ended.
http://www.reuters.com/article/us-eu...-idUSKCN0V80IH

With Turkey's inclusion into the EU imminent, there will be 77 million Turks who will get to make their debut appearance in any of the EU member states. They will not go to France because France has zero tolerance towards Muslims. They will continue to come to Germany or go to the UK where the borders are invincible and where the border agents have zero powers to turn people away.

And if you go onto the Oxbridge threads on this forum and some of the other top UK unis, you will see a growing number of EU students who simply want UK to stay in the EU so that they can apply for student loans because without it they will not be able to study in these top unis. Their main priority is to get the funding and get a place at these tops unis.

So you must be wondering whats wrong with that? Well, a growing number of EU students simply take these loans, one after another and then disappear after they've completed their studies without repaying the loans and the British government has to write off these debts. It's been reported several times and it's about time UK puts her foot down.
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/672...g-tuition-fees
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...ing-loans.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...pay-debts.html

The money you send to EU can be used to invest in your NHS, build more hospitals, recruit more police officers, increase their salaries which should apply to teachers and junior doctors too, give incentives (funding, tax breaks) to British citizens to start their own businesses (entrepreneurship) and so much more.

Lastly, and I could be wrong but my observations tell me that several people on this forum who oppose Brexit are from two camps. The first comprises of first generation British citizens whose parents immigrated to UK which is why they feel as though people are trying to marginalize their parents when they vocally support Brexit. The second are people who were born abroad and immigrated to UK at a young age with their parents in tow and similarly feeling being discriminated against when people support Brexit.

In both instances these people are wrong. As a result of their personal bias (which is understandable), they are unable to see what Brexit actually means. So it doesn't matter how many of these threads are created, how many different ways the thread title is hashed and rehashed and/or how many more good points substantiated with hard evidence is provided, these people will never alter their position.

The only way we can move forward is when people remove the wool from their eyes, put their personal agendas aside and see the referendum for what it actually is. Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union? and for the reasons I've stated, the answer is obvious. Need I elaborate more?

Vote Leave!
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