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    In response to an earlier post I'm listing many reasons to why we should stay in the EU:
    1 Sovereignty:
    What leave say: "leaving the eu will restore our sovereignty"
    What I say: absolutely false. The fact that we can even vote to leave the EU proves that. A state in the US can't just vote to leave, so they are not sovereign. We choose to pool our sovereignty over issues such as trade and the environment with other nations because it is in our mutual interest. For example, if we had fantastic environmental policies but everyone else didn't, it would be pointless, but together we can do so much more.

    2 Immigration
    What leave say: "if we leave the EU immigration will decrease by 100,000 a year"
    What I say: there's absolutely no proof that immigration will even go down. If we leave the EU it is likely we will join the EEA alongside nations like Norway, which has often been used as an example for the leave campaign. However, they have open borders just as we do as they are a signatory to the EEA, so actually nothing will change and we won't have significantly greater control over out borders, which are already relatively strong as we are not a member of the Schengen area.

    3 The economy
    What leave say: "if we stay we will turn into Spain and Greece"
    What I say: this is hilariously ironic. Every single major economist has declared a recession for the UK if we were to leave the EU and as many as 3m jobs will be at risk which rely on Europe. London's influence will decrease as companies will move some resources from London to another major EU centre as it is more profitable, say Paris. All of this will ensure massive youth unemployment, such as in Spain and Greece. Actually leaving will ensure our economy to be at a far greater risk than staying in, as we are not part of the euro.

    4 Ireland border
    What leave say: "nothing will change with our border with Ireland as that is a separate agreement"
    What I say: a lot has changed in relation to our border with Ireland and a lot depends on the EU. If we were to leave we would have to establish a brand new border relation with Ireland which could take years and in the meantime cause mass hysteria on the Ireland as increased border checks are likely to ensue.

    5 Healthcare
    What leave say: "we will redirect our £350m to our NHS and less immigration will put less stress on our system"
    What I say: utterly ridiculous. As mentioned earlier there is no guarantee of a strong decrease in immigration nor an economic boom. We are likely to lose this money altogether if we were to leave the EU die to recession, and that's even if the government chooses to redirect all this money Ailey to the NHS which is incredibly unlikely. Also with an aging population our system is going to be overstretched regardless, making us dependent on young immigrants as out birthrate is so poor.

    6 Holidays and Brits Abroad
    What leave say: "it won't be any harder to go on holiday nor more expensive and Brits in Europe can stay"
    What I say: this is an absolute joke. We will now need visas to go and visit European nations, at least as long as negotiate go on which can last many many years. And there's nothing to say that Brits won't simply be asked to leave if they don't meet the requirements to stay in their country, which is something that the leave campaign want for our country ironically. Many say that we give way more that we get out but more Brits actually live in Spain than poles in the uk. We actually immigrate to other nations in the EU as much as Eastern European countries, as much as we like to victimise them.

    So as you can see it's a no brainer. The leave campaign are spreading so many lies to confuse the public and make them vote to leave, as that is naturally more attractive (being an anti-authoritarian vote). That is their tactics. If you are fooled and we leave we will suffer the consequences for years to come. I'd like to end with a quote from Boris Johnson before the campaigns began: "The choice is quite simple - we should stay in the EU"
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    (Original post by rolaah)
    In response to an earlier post I'm listing many reasons to why we should stay in the EU:
    1 Sovereignty:
    What leave say: "leaving the eu will restore our sovereignty"
    What I say: absolutely false. The fact that we can even vote to leave the EU proves that. A state in the US can't just vote to leave, so they are not sovereign. We choose to pool our sovereignty over issues such as trade and the environment with other nations because it is in our mutual interest. For example, if we had fantastic environmental policies but everyone else didn't, it would be pointless, but together we can do so much more.

    2 Immigration
    What leave say: "if we leave the EU immigration will decrease by 100,000 a year"
    What I say: there's absolutely no proof that immigration will even go down. If we leave the EU it is likely we will join the EEA alongside nations like Norway, which has often been used as an example for the leave campaign. However, they have open borders just as we do as they are a signatory to the EEA, so actually nothing will change and we won't have significantly greater control over out borders, which are already relatively strong as we are not a member of the Schengen area.

    3 The economy
    What leave say: "if we stay we will turn into Spain and Greece"
    What I say: this is hilariously ironic. Every single major economist has declared a recession for the UK if we were to leave the EU and as many as 3m jobs will be at risk which rely on Europe. London's influence will decrease as companies will move some resources from London to another major EU centre as it is more profitable, say Paris. All of this will ensure massive youth unemployment, such as in Spain and Greece. Actually leaving will ensure our economy to be at a far greater risk than staying in, as we are not part of the euro.

    4 Ireland border
    What leave say: "nothing will change with our border with Ireland as that is a separate agreement"
    What I say: a lot has changed in relation to our border with Ireland and a lot depends on the EU. If we were to leave we would have to establish a brand new border relation with Ireland which could take years and in the meantime cause mass hysteria on the Ireland as increased border checks are likely to ensue.

    5 Healthcare
    What leave say: "we will redirect our £350m to our NHS and less immigration will put less stress on our system"
    What I say: utterly ridiculous. As mentioned earlier there is no guarantee of a strong decrease in immigration nor an economic boom. We are likely to lose this money altogether if we were to leave the EU die to recession, and that's even if the government chooses to redirect all this money Ailey to the NHS which is incredibly unlikely. Also with an aging population our system is going to be overstretched regardless, making us dependent on young immigrants as out birthrate is so poor.

    6 Holidays and Brits Abroad
    What leave say: "it won't be any harder to go on holiday nor more expensive and Brits in Europe can stay"
    What I say: this is an absolute joke. We will now need visas to go and visit European nations, at least as long as negotiate go on which can last many many years. And there's nothing to say that Brits won't simply be asked to leave if they don't meet the requirements to stay in their country, which is something that the leave campaign want for our country ironically. Many say that we give way more that we get out but more Brits actually live in Spain than poles in the uk. We actually immigrate to other nations in the EU as much as Eastern European countries, as much as we like to victimise them.

    So as you can see it's a no brainer. The leave campaign are spreading so many lies to confuse the public and make them vote to leave, as that is naturally more attractive (being an anti-authoritarian vote). That is their tactics. If you are fooled and we leave we will suffer the consequences for years to come. I'd like to end with a quote from Boris Johnson before the campaigns began: "The choice is quite simple - we should stay in the EU"
    1 sovereignity, inside the EU we obviously aren't independent. And if we want to leave they scare us and say that if we leave the sky would fall,that we'll cause world war 3. They threaten us,like the German treasury minister. With Brexit we would have our sovereignity back.
    2 Immigration, if we leave we'll have full power on our borders. We can stop immigration or we can keep it as we want. We can even use the Navy if we want. It's the point of being independent. We wouldn't have to obey Germany or Brussels.
    3 economy, the EU is fail. If it was for Labour we would even be inside the Euro. The EU doesn't let us trade with the USA in the way we would if we were independent. The most powerful nation in the world is a better friend than Spain and Greece.
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    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    1 sovereignity, inside the EU we obviously aren't independent. And if we want to leave they scare us and say that if we leave the sky would fall,that we'll cause world war 3. They threaten us,like the German treasury minister. With Brexit we would have our sovereignity back.
    But we are independent. We can set tax, much of our employment law, our own policing and crime laws and legislate on more or less all aspects of how we choose to live our lives. But in or out, we would still be bound by the thousands of European and International treaties. If we wish to trade with the EU, in or out, we would still have to abide by much of their legislation just like China and the US do.

    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    2 Immigration, if we leave we'll have full power on our borders. We can stop immigration or we can keep it as we want. We can even use the Navy if we want. It's the point of being independent. We wouldn't have to obey Germany or Brussels.
    Good old immigration. I am yet to hear why it is that we allowed 130,000 non-EU immigrants in last year. We could have set that to zero and no one would have batted an eye. My feeling is that immigration is much more complex than the likes of Boris and Gove make out. If we leave, I will place serious money on the new administration being unable to bring the number below 100,000 (assuming the economy doesn't bomb), just as no one seems capable of reducing waste in the NHS or tax evasion by the rich.

    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    3 economy, the EU is fail. If it was for Labour we would even be inside the Euro. The EU doesn't let us trade with the USA in the way we would if we were independent. The most powerful nation in the world is a better friend than Spain and Greece.
    It kind of really isn't. You can't joke at the buying power of 450 million people who have some of the highest living standards in the world. If the EU is failing, you will be telling me that the future is Africa right?
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    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    1 sovereignity, inside the EU we obviously aren't independent. And if we want to leave they scare us and say that if we leave the sky would fall,that we'll cause world war 3. They threaten us,like the German treasury minister. With Brexit we would have our sovereignity back.
    2 Immigration, if we leave we'll have full power on our borders. We can stop immigration or we can keep it as we want. We can even use the Navy if we want. It's the point of being independent. We wouldn't have to obey Germany or Brussels.
    3 economy, the EU is fail. If it was for Labour we would even be inside the Euro. The EU doesn't let us trade with the USA in the way we would if we were independent. The most powerful nation in the world is a better friend than Spain and Greece.
    1 Sovereignty: are we a sovereign state represented at the UN with a completely independent parliment who can join and leave the EU whenever it pleases. Yes. To deny that is simply ridiculous - hence why we can even have this debate. The EU is an organisation, not a state.

    2 Immigration: Brussels doesn't control our army you complete idiot. And also we couldn't use it to attack immigrants - are you insane???? Ultimately nothing will change regarding powers to our borders, whether you like that or not.

    3 Economy: As far as I am aware the EU is the largest economic bloc in the world? So how is it a complete failure? It's on a fast track for recovery and we have secured a deal whereby we can never be forced to join the eurozone. We still trade very heavily with the US, they can't control who we trade with. We choose to trade more with the EU, because it is an incredibly large market which is close to home.

    Your arguments are so poor that I think you're trolling. If not I would actually confiscate your right to vote, absolutely shocking that you will have a say in my future.
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    This must be a troll, surely you cant be this disillusioned from reality
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    (Original post by rolaah)
    khhkjj
    Switzerland would be collapsing and a 3rd world country based on your logic.
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    I'm voting leave because the EU central bank has been doing the same kind of money printing which put Germany into hyper inflation after WW1. This is what led to Germany's economic collapse. The conditions of ultra austerity made it possible for Hitler & his National Socialists to take power all across Europe.

    I say never again.

    The Remain campaign say that Britain will be worse off leaving the EU. £5000 per family is a good price for avoiding complete economic melt down.

    As a disabled person I want to avoid being a scapegoat for economic failures. If I vote remain I may as well be setting myself up for having all inclusive ticket for the next holocaust.

    So I will vote leave and remember the thousands of Jews who died at the hands of the Nazi's.

    Never Again!
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    yawn.
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    I'm voting remain because without the EU laws as a safety net the tories will have full reign to ignore the human rights act and you just know that Gove would do everything in his power to spit on workers' rights and I doubt Boris would be any better. If we're completely honest we are going to have a tory government for decades now and I really feel that we need some sort of leash on these people. That's what the EU provides.
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    (Original post by Ladymusiclover)
    yawn.
    Ye I totally understand. Knowing information about the European Central Bank is boring!

    Would be better to vote Remain because my favourite band said so and I might get tickets to see them!

    I totally understand.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    Ye I totally understand. Knowing information about the European Central Bank is boring!

    Would be better to vote Remain because my favourite band said so and I might get tickets to see them!

    I totally understand.
    Hey I'm voting leave!!!!!!!
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    (Original post by BefuddledPenguin)
    I'm voting remain because without the EU laws as a safety net the tories will have full reign to ignore the human rights act and you just know that Gove would do everything in his power to spit on workers' rights and I doubt Boris would be any better. If we're completely honest we are going to have a tory government for decades now and I really feel that we need some sort of leash on these people. That's what the EU provides.
    So you think. Go and google how the EU is fully signed up to the depopulation plan of Agenda 21. The culling of the working classes.
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    (Original post by Ladymusiclover)
    Hey I'm voting leave!!!!!!!
    Aww come on see the humor in the opportunity
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    (Original post by ByEeek)
    But we are independent. We can set tax, much of our employment law, our own policing and crime laws and legislate on more or less all aspects of how we choose to live our lives. But in or out, we would still be bound by the thousands of European and International treaties. If we wish to trade with the EU, in or out, we would still have to abide by much of their legislation just like China and the US do.


    Good old immigration. I am yet to hear why it is that we allowed 130,000 non-EU immigrants in last year. We could have set that to zero and no one would have batted an eye. My feeling is that immigration is much more complex than the likes of Boris and Gove make out. If we leave, I will place serious money on the new administration being unable to bring the number below 100,000 (assuming the economy doesn't bomb), just as no one seems capable of reducing waste in the NHS or tax evasion by the rich.



    It kind of really isn't. You can't joke at the buying power of 450 million people who have some of the highest living standards in the world. If the EU is failing, you will be telling me that the future is Africa right?
    We are not independent. We can't even set the labels on the stuff we buy. We had to remove the labels we thought were right on food because Italy complained that they were damaging their cheese.
    The non-Eu immigrants are mostly from the EU states. Being a EU member forces us to take them. We're an island so if were independent we could have no immigration at all if we want.
    The EU doesn't have 450 million rich. Only half of them are rich. The future is America and China and the EU doesn't let us trade with them in the way we want. The United States are the richest country in the world and also the richest per capita.
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    (Original post by Ladymusiclover)
    Hey I'm voting leave!!!!!!!
    You know if Iggy Azalea told me to vote Remain I might have to because how the hell is a 30 something year old like me suppose to remain cool when all you trendy Uni students got more Swag than me.
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    (Original post by illegaltobepoor)
    You know if Iggy Azalea told me to vote Remain I might have to because how the hell is a 30 something year old like me suppose to remain cool when all you trendy Uni students got more Swag than me.
    HAHA
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    (Original post by rolaah)
    1 Sovereignty: are we a sovereign state represented at the UN with a completely independent parliment who can join and leave the EU whenever it pleases. Yes. To deny that is simply ridiculous - hence why we can even have this debate. The EU is an organisation, not a state.

    2 Immigration: Brussels doesn't control our army you complete idiot. And also we couldn't use it to attack immigrants - are you insane???? Ultimately nothing will change regarding powers to our borders, whether you like that or not.

    3 Economy: As far as I am aware the EU is the largest economic bloc in the world? So how is it a complete failure? It's on a fast track for recovery and we have secured a deal whereby we can never be forced to join the eurozone. We still trade very heavily with the US, they can't control who we trade with. We choose to trade more with the EU, because it is an incredibly large market which is close to home.

    Your arguments are so poor that I think you're trolling. If not I would actually confiscate your right to vote, absolutely shocking that you will have a say in my future.
    1. Just because we have a referendum it doesn't mean we have full sovereignity. And this debate isn't free either because they scare us and use their position of power to convince us that we can't leave the EU or we would bankrupt. The German ministers also threaten us. Fear is the ultimate weapon to have a false democracy. Cameron said that the EU laws are 'a lethal weapon',of course he said that before the referendum campaign. He doesn't say it now but it's his real opinion.
    2. Brussels can decide on immigration and impose us their decision. Australia uses the Navy and has an excellent immigration policy. They have close to zero immigration. Inside the EU we can't do the same even if we wanted. We have to take the quota of all the immigrants who arrive in Italy,Greece,Spain.
    3. The EU is not the richest bloc pro capita. Only if you count the general gdp
    you have a high number but it's just a sum of numbers. Even in 1914 you would have the same figures. None of this has been produced thanks to the EU. The EU doesn't let us trade with the USA and China in the way we want,this is facts.
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    Regardless of your politics, you have to admit there is so much hypocrisy from the left who argue that leaving the EU will damage our economy. Many of the left, especially those who vote Green, are self-proclaimed anti-capitalists, but when it comes to Europe, all of a sudden they're supporters of the single market and argue that jobs will be lost as a result of big-businesses moving elsewhere in Europe.

    Considering many on the left support raising corporation tax to upwards of 30%, I don't think they have a right to talk about the economy in such a contradictory manner. Personally, I want to stay in the EU, but some of the codswallop that's come out of the mouth of some progressives is laughable.
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    (Original post by RoyalMarine)
    We are not independent. We can't even set the labels on the stuff we buy. We had to remove the labels we thought were right on food because Italy complained that they were damaging their cheese.
    The non-Eu immigrants are mostly from the EU states. Being a EU member forces us to take them. We're an island so if were independent we could have no immigration at all if we want.
    Indeed, but this is perfect example of Britain getting their way too because France wanted to ban our use of chocolate because in their view it didn't contain enough cocoa. As we know a compromise was reached and the UK is busy buying cheese and the French are still happy buying chocolate. Everyone is happy.
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    Got about 4 lines down before determining that the OP has a pretty poor command of English/the issue

    Educate yourself mate: Countdown to the Referendum: What We Should All Know About the EU vs. UK Independence
 
 
 
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