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Having trouble forming an opinion on the EU Referendum.. Help? watch

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    I have been jumping from side to side with this, and it's getting quite silly, and I'll explain my problems.

    Any time I see any argument from anyone, I'm able to easily argue it in my head. I haven't seen any good points. It all just seems based on best case scenario vs worst case scenario. But that's not a good way of judging things is it? If I were to do that, to decide if I should go to the shops and get milk, the worst case scenario would be that I get mugged and stabbed, and the best case scenario is that I find a crap ton of money and the floor and meet my future wife, or something absurd like that.

    If we stay, I highly doubt the EU will get reformed to this idealistic "together" nation. But on the same thought, I highly doubt they plan to remove all power from our government and make it all 1 country. Similarly, if we leave the EU, I highly doubt we will become one of the strongest economies in the world. But I also doubt we will go into a 10 year economic recession that screws us all over.

    It's all just over exaggerated lies. Immigration is not a problem, we don't have open boarders. I could go on and on.

    The main thing that gets me is that people are unable to accept good arguments from an opposing side. For example, someone voting leave, pretends that there's not a single benifit to staying. They pretend it's all doom and death if we stay - and visa versa. Why can't people accept it's clearly a very opinion-based decision (i.e economy (long term vs short term) vs power vs immigration etc - whatever you value more. Why can't someone just make an independent factual based post.

    The value for the amount we pay to the EU - I reckon I've seen more different values for it, than the amount we actually have to pay in pounds. I don't get how people ignore the benefits of the EU, and how others ignore the benefits of leaving as well.

    I just find it impossible to pick a side. I always see through biased posts and propaganda. It's unhealthy but I can't not notice the bias.

    Anyway, anyone else went through similar and has any advice?
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    (Original post by ComputerMaths97)
    I have been jumping from side to side with this, and it's getting quite silly, and I'll explain my problems.

    Any time I see any argument from anyone, I'm able to easily argue it in my head. I haven't seen any good points. It all just seems based on best case scenario vs worst case scenario. But that's not a good way of judging things is it? If I were to do that, to decide if I should go to the shops and get milk, the worst case scenario would be that I get mugged and stabbed, and the best case scenario is that I find a crap ton of money and the floor and meet my future wife, or something absurd like that.

    If we stay, I highly doubt the EU will get reformed to this idealistic "together" nation. But on the same thought, I highly doubt they plan to remove all power from our government and make it all 1 country. Similarly, if we leave the EU, I highly doubt we will become one of the strongest economies in the world. But I also doubt we will go into a 10 year economic recession that screws us all over.

    It's all just over exaggerated lies. Immigration is not a problem, we don't have open boarders. I could go on and on.

    The main thing that gets me is that people are unable to accept good arguments from an opposing side. For example, someone voting leave, pretends that there's not a single benifit to staying. They pretend it's all doom and death if we stay - and visa versa. Why can't people accept it's clearly a very opinion-based decision (i.e economy (long term vs short term) vs power vs immigration etc - whatever you value more. Why can't someone just make an independent factual based post.

    The value for the amount we pay to the EU - I reckon I've seen more different values for it, than the amount we actually have to pay in pounds. I don't get how people ignore the benefits of the EU, and how others ignore the benefits of leaving as well.

    I just find it impossible to pick a side. I always see through biased posts and propaganda. It's unhealthy but I can't not notice the bias.

    Anyway, anyone else went through similar and has any advice?
    The EU is a complex issue and at the end of the day, I think it's less of a vote with the head and more of a vote with the heart. I would suggest voting Remain if you are not sure (even though I myself am voting Leave) because if you don't have the confidence that we can work outside the EU then it's best to vote for the status quo, which is a little more predictable.

    I was a fence sitter for ages, but I came to my viewpoint because I decided I wanted more autonomy for the UK and the chance for greater self-governance. If you're really struggling but don't want to spoil your ballot paper tomorrow, I recommend you think about what matters to you most, whether it is immigration, independence or economic factors - and vote based off that.
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    (Original post by ComputerMaths97)
    any advice?
    "Advice?" Mate it's your personal choice. Do you have a belief system? Any political knowledge? If so go on that. It's about your beliefs and what you feel would benefit you. Also no one's forcing you to vote, are they?
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    (Original post by 0to100)
    "Advice?" Mate it's your personal choice. Do you have a belief system? Any political knowledge? If so go on that. It's about your beliefs and what you feel would benefit you. Also no one's forcing you to vote, are they?
    I understand how it's subjective, but I try to grow a subjective opinion and all I can find is other people's subjective opinions, which I personally find hard to really "digest" for lack of a better word. I've never seen an argument I can't argue back on this topic.

    I've always been like that, I can't say I'm more left-wing than right-wing - or visa versa, because they're just phrases to represent a general theme of beliefs that neither of I fall perfectly under. I love theoretical politics and economics, but real world politics just seems a little pathetic to me. I understand though mate, I appreciate your input, I guess I just gotta go with the gut as people say xD

    (Original post by Anonymous)
    The EU is a complex issue and at the end of the day, I think it's less of a vote with the head and more of a vote with the heart. I would suggest voting Remain if you are not sure (even though I myself am voting Leave) because if you don't have the confidence that we can work outside the EU then it's best to vote for the status quo, which is a little more predictable.

    I was a fence sitter for ages, but I came to my viewpoint because I decided I wanted more autonomy for the UK and the chance for greater self-governance. If you're really struggling but don't want to spoil your ballot paper tomorrow, I recommend you think about what matters to you most, whether it is immigration, independence or economic factors - and vote based off that.
    Thank you very much for this post

    Do we really have so little control though - the majority of people voting leave definitely have that as one of their main arguments - the idea of power. I also agree that democracy and soveiregnty are very important, but do we really lack these because of the EU? I mean I never hear people complain about the (unelected) House of Lords, and I've never heard anyone complain about the EU before the referendum came up. Just seems sketchy to me. I've researched what the EU have control of over us, and I'm pretty certain it's hardly oppressive, especially for what we get out of the EU. But at the same time, with so many people believing it's too oppressive, it makes me question myself.
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    (Original post by ComputerMaths97)
    Thank you very much for this post

    Do we really have so little control though - the majority of people voting leave definitely have that as one of their main arguments - the idea of power. I also agree that democracy and soveiregnty are very important, but do we really lack these because of the EU? I mean I never hear people complain about the (unelected) House of Lords, and I've never heard anyone complain about the EU before the referendum came up. Just seems sketchy to me. I've researched what the EU have control of over us, and I'm pretty certain it's hardly oppressive, especially for what we get out of the EU. But at the same time, with so many people believing it's too oppressive, it makes me question myself.
    Think about it like this, are you happy with?-> Yes -> Vote in
    No -> think worst case scenario in EU (probs 'United States of Europe') -> think worst case scenario leave (decreased trade, increase taxes, blah blah) -> Vote whichever one you prefer
    As you may be able to tell I'm very pessimistic, ultimately I dislike change so I favour remain.
    I recommend looking at https://fullfact.org/europe/
    Honestly, from what I've read it's the laws are mainly regulation on trade to keep a level playing field between companies (hence no nationalisation of non-essential industries, subsidised farming, etc.), with which I am satisfied with. I think the main issue people have with it is the distance, similar to Scotland and the UK parliament.
    At the end of the day it's your choice...
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