Brexit is the single biggest threat to the UK and Europe Watch

alevelstresss
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#1
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3FqAaD_lsRw

Name:  Screen Shot 2016-06-22 at 12.14.48.jpg
Views: 231
Size:  288.1 KB

In summary:

- Scotland will have a second referendum if they vote majorly to remain, and they will leave us with a comfortable independence vote. The UK will break up.

- The current Tory leaders will be replaced with even more right wing leaders, David Cameron and George Osbourne are pretty daft characters, but it could be so much worse.

- There will probably be another general election within the next year, the majority of the Tory party will almost certainly flip to Boris Johnson's camp and rebel against David Cameron - and they will almost certainly win by a comfortable margin.

- The NHS will crumble. Boris Johnson, Iain Duncan Smith and Michael Gove each separately tried to cut the NHS or otherwise undermine it. The extra '£350 million', accurate or not, would be spent compensating for the economic losses as a result of leaving.

- Other EU countries will be inclined to do their own referendums, and the last few decades of European peace will be severed in two. Putin will take advantage of this.

- Other things include the blatant economic crisis which will occur, we will have no leverage in the EU to deal with the migrant crisis and global warming, fascist/right-wing politics will succeed and these new leaders will be thriving on this destructive attitude.




These are very real risks, do you honestly think getting 5% more democracy is worth it? Voting to leave is NOT an 'anti-establishment' vote, you are simply replacing the already unfavourable characters with even worse ones.

We can't control immigration, no matter how much 'control' we have over it - this is proven by the Conservatives failed non-EU migrant aims. The extra money to be gained will be negligible compared to the following economic crash, and it certainly won't be spent on the NHS.
5
reply
CherishFreedom
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#2
Report 3 years ago
#2
OP, I think you ought to have more faith in our democracy and confidence in the general intelligence of the British public.

I think you may be too confident that your political philosophy is the 'right' one and you are trying to sway others by making far fetched assumptions on the other side of the political spectrum.

From anyone's point of view, it is obvious that your points are extreme assumptions and undeveloped arguments.
10
reply
alevelstresss
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#3
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#3
(Original post by CherishFreedom)
OP, I think you ought to have more faith in our democracy and confidence in the general intelligence of the British public.

From anyone's point of view, it is obvious that your points are extreme assumptions and undeveloped arguments.
Please, these points are summarised from this. https://youtube.com/watch?v=3FqAaD_lsRw

Watch that and call them undeveloped

We are facing a very real risk for a stupid reason
0
reply
floury
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#4
Report 3 years ago
#4
This is simply project fear and I'm voting leave tomorrow as a big fat **** off to French threats about Brexit.


Posted from TSR Mobile
8
reply
alevelstresss
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#5
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#5
(Original post by floury)
This is simply project fear and I'm voting leave tomorrow as a big fat **** off to French threats about Brexit.


Posted from TSR Mobile
Project fear is warranted if the risks are genuine, which they are, but I'm embarrassed to be in the same country as you if your sole reason is revenge on the French
0
reply
Athos
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#6
Report 3 years ago
#6
What's the French threat to brexit?

Posted from TSR Mobile
0
reply
alevelstresss
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#7
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#7
(Original post by Athos)
What's the French threat to brexit?

Posted from TSR Mobile
The threat of a French referendum and them leaving the EU and dividing relations between other EU countries - devastating the peace we've had, giving rise to right wing parties, reducing co-operation and lessening our efficiency at dealing with global crises like the migrant crisis and global warming or dealing with terrorism.
0
reply
Count Bezukhov
Badges: 18
Rep:
?
#8
Report 3 years ago
#8
Ironic how the leave campaign has branded Remain as 'project fear', yet they're the ones spreading the lies about Turkey 'imminently joining'; if this isn't scaremongering then I don't know what is. Turkey are NOT joining the EU and they NEVER WILL. They have been a candidate country for years and have made no progress at all towards becoming a member. They are highly authoritarian, anti-democratic and have a shakey human rights record. All of this will need to be overcome before they can even think of becoming EU members. Besides, I think we have a right to be scared of a gigantic economic downturn that will be caused by leaving.
3
reply
CherishFreedom
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#9
Report 3 years ago
#9
My point still stands. Just because others believe differently to you does not make them wrong. Imagine if the majority believes in something which you disagree, wouldn't that make you an extremist in a way?

There is no need to make these kind of extreme assumptions to try to degrade the argument of the leave campaign. It convinces nobody.

What you should do is to debate the merit of their arguments by developing your points further, unless a political circlejerk is simply what you're after in this thread.
0
reply
alevelstresss
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#10
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#10
(Original post by CherishFreedom)
My point still stands. Just because others believe differently to you does not make them wrong. Imagine if the majority believes in something which you disagree, wouldn't that make you an extremist in a way?

There is no need to make these kind of extreme assumptions to try to degrade the argument of the leave campaign. It convinces nobody.

What you should do is to debate the merit of their arguments by developing your points further, unless a political circlejerk is simply what you're after in this thread.
I'm sorry, but this is exactly what the pro-Brexit supporters on this place do, every single day, but you're attacking me? Probably solely because I support remain.

I've summarised what the video says, and I agree with most of it, so you're wasting time here.
0
reply
Elivercury
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#11
Report 3 years ago
#11
(Original post by CherishFreedom)
My point still stands. Just because others believe differently to you does not make them wrong. Imagine if the majority believes in something which you disagree, wouldn't that make you an extremist in a way?

There is no need to make these kind of extreme assumptions to try to degrade the argument of the leave campaign. It convinces nobody.

What you should do is to debate the merit of their arguments by developing your points further, unless a political circlejerk is simply what you're after in this thread.
They're not really that extreme though? I mean, I'd say at least half of those are certainties.

The leavers are actively complaining that Cameron can't stay and represent their interests if they win and they want someone more right wing/leave focused. Likewise it isn't exactly a secret that the common belief in Scotland (and elsewhere) is that a leave vote means a second independence referendum. I don't think it's a huge leap that it would win either given how pro EU Scotland is.

There are certainly extreme examples kicking around about how we'd fare in leave, such as claims of us being embargoed by the entire EU, but these are not some of them.
0
reply
CherishFreedom
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#12
Report 3 years ago
#12
(Original post by alevelstresss)
I'm sorry, but this is exactly what the pro-Brexit supporters on this place do, every single day, but you're attacking me? Probably solely because I support remain.

I've summarised what the video says, and I agree with most of it, so you're wasting time here.
So when somebody on the opposite side does it, you want to do it too? Even though you know full well that undeveloped assumptions will not convince anyone?

It is fine that you are stern on your beliefs, unlike some I am perfectly fine with disagreeing. I did not state anything about the referendum on my posts here. You immediately assumed that I am criticising you because you support the remain campaign, instead of actually evaluating and refining your arguments.
0
reply
username2553161
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#13
Report 3 years ago
#13
Interesting analysis by David Cowling, head of political research at the BBC:

“It seems to me that the London bubble has to burst if there is to be any prospect of addressing the issues that have brought us to our current situation. There are many millions of people in the UK who do not enthuse about diversity and do not embrace metropolitan values yet do not consider themselves lesser human beings for all that. Until their values and opinions are acknowledged and respected, rather than ignored and despised, our present discord will persist. Because these discontents run very wide and very deep and the metropolitan political class, confronted by them, seems completely bewildered and at a loss about how to respond (“who are these ghastly people and where do they come from?” doesn’t really hack it). The 2016 EU referendum has witnessed the cashing in of some very bitter bankable grudges but I believe that, throughout this 2016 campaign, Europe has been the shadow not the substance.”

That sums the Remainers point of view up nicely I think. They've landed on their feet, through no genius on their own part, thye were just on the right side of the housing bubble, and now find themselves property millionaires, and cant and wont look beyond the end of their own noses. Its the 'Im alright jack' screw everyone else philosophy, of the Remain camp.
0
reply
CherishFreedom
Badges: 6
Rep:
?
#14
Report 3 years ago
#14
(Original post by Elivercury)
They're not really that extreme though? I mean, I'd say at least half of those are certainties.

The leavers are actively complaining that Cameron can't stay and represent their interests if they win and they want someone more right wing/leave focused. Likewise it isn't exactly a secret that the common belief in Scotland (and elsewhere) is that a leave vote means a second independence referendum. I don't think it's a huge leap that it would win either given how pro EU Scotland is.

There are certainly extreme examples kicking around about how we'd fare in leave, such as claims of us being embargoed by the entire EU, but these are not some of them.
Then list me the points you think are 'certainties', and let's discuss whether they are qualified.
0
reply
username2553161
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#15
Report 3 years ago
#15
The op is a fearmonger.

Same thing happened to Norway, when said NO to the EU.

They received a barrage of fearmongering and lies, the same lies we are being told, and they all proved to be completely false.
LIES told to NORWAY before they rejected the EU.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-UbT0g9A8c
0
reply
alevelstresss
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#16
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#16
(Original post by CherishFreedom)
So when somebody on the opposite side does it, you want to do it too? Even though you know full well that undeveloped assumptions will not convince anyone?

It is fine that you are stern on your beliefs, unlike some I am perfectly fine with disagreeing. I did not state anything about the referendum on my posts here. You immediately assumed that I am criticising you because you support the remain campaign, instead of actually evaluating and refining your arguments.
I've personally found that developed arguments are equally ignored by the majority of people here. This video outlines some clear threats to Brexit, I'm just spreading the message because Owen Jones' original video only has about 24,000 views and it needs to be viewed more before people start putting imaginary playthings like democracy and sovreignty over the potential post-Brexit risks. If you have a problem with them being 'assumptions' or 'underdeveloped' - both is achieved in the video. But if I had written some massive paragraph of developed points, very few would actually go over it.
0
reply
alevelstresss
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#17
Report Thread starter 3 years ago
#17
(Original post by Rover73)
The op is a fearmonger.

Same thing happened to Norway, when said NO to the EU.

They received a barrage of fearmongering and lies, the same lies we are being told, and they all proved to be completely false.
LIES told to NORWAY before they rejected the EU.

http://<a href="https://www.youtube....-UbT0g9A8c</a>
We are circumstantially different to Norway saying 'no' decades ago, things have changed massively. It would not be identical for us. Do you think the EU gave a **** about Norway not joining? Probably not much of one, but Britain, being one of the biggest member states, leaving - this is things on a whole new level.
0
reply
duckd0nald
Badges: 2
Rep:
?
#18
Report 3 years ago
#18
Maybe if all the other country leaders and fat cats weren't throwing a strop over Brexit then it wouldn't be that much of a problem.
0
reply
username2553161
Badges: 1
Rep:
?
#19
Report 3 years ago
#19
(Original post by alevelstresss)
We are circumstantially different to Norway saying 'no' decades ago, things have changed massively. It would not be identical for us. Do you think the EU gave a **** about Norway not joining? Probably not much of one, but Britain, being one of the biggest member states, leaving - this is things on a whole new level.

Were nothing more to Junckers than a financial drip in the arm of Germany.

"If we were outside the EU altogether, we'd still be trading with all these countries..... Sometimes theres a lot of scaremongering on all sides of this debate. Of course the trading would still go on.
David Cameron."

" The EU takes away from national parliaments the power to set economic policy and hands it over to an unelected set of bankers who will impose the economic policies of price stability, deflation and high unemployment throughout the European Community".Jeremy Corbyn.

Corbyn voted against the Lisbon Treaty in 2008, and in one article on his website, said the EU had "always suffered a serious democratic deficit".

These are the true feelings of these two politicians, before the referendum came about.

Now Cameron is just a puppet, [as are all incumbent uk governments] to the Central Banks. Even Corbyn has said so, as evidenced above.

And its those guys, Goldman Sachs [funding Remain] who stand to lose billions if we Brexit.

There will be two years of negotiations after 23.06, if we brexit, and believe me, Germany will still want our money. And we will have more of it.
The people who have worked hard for twenty years and have no house, no capital to show for it, have nothing, and therefore have nothing to lose.
When the Remain camp claim we'll be poorer, what they actually mean is that britain will become a more equal society again, the wealth gap produced by the banks, between the haves and have nots, will move a lot closer to a more equal society once again.
0
reply
Elivercury
Badges: 16
Rep:
?
#20
Report 3 years ago
#20
(Original post by CherishFreedom)
Then list me the points you think are 'certainties', and let's discuss whether they are qualified.
I just listed the first three.

The others don't seem unreasonable either, given such a huge shift in the market is obviously doing to have an immediate dampening effect on the global economy (it already has to an extent in anticipation). It's no secret that Gove, Hunt and Boris want to scrap the NHS, they've written books on the topic.

Whether other EU countries are likely to have referendums is ultimately down to how much of an "example" they make of us for leaving. This one I don't necessarily agree with.

On the whole the majority of them seem very likely. I wouldn't call any of them certainties, as there are no certainties. If we could only discuss certainties there would be no debate what so every on the subject.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Have you made up your mind on your five uni choices?

Yes I know where I'm applying (150)
59.29%
No I haven't decided yet (58)
22.92%
Yes but I might change my mind (45)
17.79%

Watched Threads

View All