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Opinions on trusting experts: Leavers vs Remainers Watch

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    And we wonder why everything's ****ed.
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    Experts told us to adopt the euro, what happened?

    That's why we voted out, long live the mighty £!
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    Quite frankly, even as a remainer, I am very distrusting on what paid economists say. I will always look at the background of who is making the claim before deciding whether I can trust them or not.

    However the reason 'remain' failed is because in debates they simply said leaving would be bad for the economy and pointed at fancy names and reports. What they had to do was explain in simple and concise terms WHY and HOW the economy would be damaged. It wasn't bloody difficult, and yet they didn't do it so it just came across as scaremongering.
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    Sceptics are usually more intelligent. I like how you put so much blind faith in experts that have a track record for getting things wrong. Do you realise that a genius like Albert Einstein called experts 'trained dogs'?

    Why don't we have a discussion about the IMF and OECD reports? I've read both conclusively so I'm sure that you'll also, having read them as a remain voter who clearly likes expert opinion, will also enjoy discussing them.

    What are your viewpoints on the assumptions made in the IMF report in particular? I'd be interested to know.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Experts told us to adopt the euro, what happened?

    That's why we voted out, long live the mighty £!
    They told us to adopt the euro because of predictions based on what would happen if we joined. We didn't join. You have absolutely no idea what would happen if we did.

    (Original post by welshiee)
    Sceptics are usually more intelligent. I like how you put so much blind faith in experts that have a track record for getting things wrong. Do you realise that a genius like Albert Einstein called experts 'trained dogs'?

    Why don't we have a discussion about the IMF and OECD reports? I've read both conclusively so I'm sure that you'll also, having read them as a remain voter who clearly likes expert opinion, will also enjoy discussing them.

    What are your viewpoints on the assumptions made in the IMF report in particular? I'd be interested to know.
    There's a difference between being sceptical and dismissing an overwhelming consensus because you don't like what you hear.

    I'm not going to pretend to have read the report because I obviously haven't. I'm not an economist, and I'm not qualified to understand it. Most of the people dismissing it haven't read it either, they've just decided that "they're obviously lying". But there's a difference between a single opinion and an overwhelming consensus.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    There's a difference between being sceptical and dismissing an overwhelming consensus because you don't like what you hear.
    Look at the facts: https://fullfact.org/economy/ten-things-know-about-economic-models/

    Key point of note:

    'Understanding the assumptions that have gone into the models, and their potential limitations, is what makes them a good starting point for debate. They only provide part of the picture, and users should never let them have the final word.'

    I didn't let them have the final word because they were laughable. Baseless assumptions based on events that didn't even happen, or future predictions that were pie in the sky. If you put **** into an economic model you will get **** back out and most economists have made completely baseless assumptions in their reports.

    The truth is, nobody on either side knows what will happen, not even the experts, and we should accept that uncertainty for what it is.

    I'm not going to pretend to have read the report because I obviously haven't. I'm not an economist, and I'm not qualified to understand it. Most of the people dismissing it haven't read it either, they've just decided that "they're obviously lying". But there's a difference between a single opinion and an overwhelming consensus.
    I've read them both and as someone with a background in science they are ****ing laughable. In fact, if I was in any position of power I would use some of the reports as a mandate to stop economics being called a soft science or social science because its about as anti-scientific as it gets when economists are putting such ******** assumptions into their work to manipulate the output.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    Look at the facts: https://fullfact.org/economy/ten-things-know-about-economic-models/

    Key point of note:

    'Understanding the assumptions that have gone into the models, and their potential limitations, is what makes them a good starting point for debate. They only provide part of the picture, and users should never let them have the final word.'

    I didn't let them have the final word because they were laughable. Baseless assumptions based on events that didn't even happen, or future predictions that were pie in the sky. If you put **** into an economic model you will get **** back out and most economists have made completely baseless assumptions in their reports.

    The truth is, nobody on either side knows what will happen, not even the experts, and we should accept that uncertainty for what it is.



    I've read them both and as someone with a background in science they are ****ing laughable. In fact, if I was in any position of power I would use some of the reports as a mandate to stop economics being called a soft science or social science because its about as anti-scientific as it gets when economists are putting such ******** assumptions into their work to manipulate the output.
    Assumptions always have to be made when you're making predictions. Still, there's probably a reason why all the economists making different assumptions came to the same conclusion.
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    Mate, what did you expect?

    These were people that brought felt tip pens to the voting booth because they thought MI5 would change the results.
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    (Original post by Bill_Gates)
    Experts told us to adopt the euro, what happened?

    That's why we voted out, long live the mighty £!
    Actually, most monetary economists said it was a terrible idea. The IMF said it was a terrible idea. Gordon Brown said it was a terrible idea because it failed most of the economic criteria.

    Don't worry about facts though.
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    Oh get lost you anti-intellectual idiot.

    It should be standard to scrutinise and give criticism to be intellectual, but you fail to do both.
    Economists like every other person has agendas.
    Economists like every other person can be biased.

    I remember a certain year of 2008 when economic predictions come to mind

    ...I wonder why. :eyeball:
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    (Original post by XcitingStuart)
    Oh get lost you anti-intellectual idiot.

    It should be standard to scrutinise and give criticism to be intellectual, but you fail to do both.
    Not when you don't know what you're talking about. I'm not going to go to NASA and criticise their designs for the ****ing space shuttle because I'm not an engineer.

    If you don't know enough about something, you can't criticise it effectively.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)


    And we wonder why everything's ****ed.
    Experts clamoured for the EURO.. Experts missed (Caused) the financial crash.. Experts lead us into the Iraq War... experts removed Gaddafi...

    Experts are not infallible nor are they wonderful benevolent gods
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Not when you don't know what you're talking about. I'm not going to go to NASA and criticise their designs for the ****ing space shuttle because I'm not an engineer.

    If you don't know enough about something, you can't criticise it effectively.
    That's why there's a thing called research.

    Economics isn't comparable to something like engineering.
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    (Original post by welshiee)
    Sceptics are usually more intelligent. I like how you put so much blind faith in experts that have a track record for getting things wrong. Do you realise that a genius like Albert Einstein called experts 'trained dogs'?

    Why don't we have a discussion about the IMF and OECD reports? I've read both conclusively so I'm sure that you'll also, having read them as a remain voter who clearly likes expert opinion, will also enjoy discussing them.

    What are your viewpoints on the assumptions made in the IMF report in particular? I'd be interested to know.
    I'd sooner trust a recognised expert than someone who overstates their expertise on internet forums :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Betelgeuse-)
    Experts clamoured for the EURO.. Experts missed (Caused) the financial crash.. Experts lead us into the Iraq War... experts removed Gaddafi...

    Experts are not infallible nor are they wonderful benevolent gods
    But they do on average get things right much more often than non-experts, which is pretty much the point.
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    (Original post by JordanL_)
    Assumptions always have to be made when you're making predictions. Still, there's probably a reason why all the economists making different assumptions came to the same conclusion.
    Comparing economics to engineering is hilarious. It just shows you have no idea what you're on about. Economics is barely even a science and the fact the media label it as one is hilarious. What has an economist ever proved other than they're most often wrong? I find the fact economists are called scientists offensive to be honest as they're no more conclusive than weather predictions, as said in point two here.

    https://fullfact.org/economy/ten-thi...onomic-models/
 
 
 
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