UK should create a new European Free Trade Zone (EEC)

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Poll: UK should create a new European Free Trade Zone (EEC)
Yes (9)
56.25%
No (7)
43.75%
Gavin2016
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#1
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#1
Many countries now lining up with their own referendums on leaving the EUthe UK should seize the opportunity to create a new European Free Trade Zone (like the EEC) instead of going cap in hand to the EU. This would mean the UK could get the Free Trade with Europe it desires and avoid the EU dictating that it accepts the 'Free Movement of People' a major concern for the Leave campaign. In this way the EU would be shaped around Britain not Germany or Brussels. Agree?
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999tigger
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#2
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#2
(Original post by Gavin2016)
Many countries now lining up with their own referendums on leaving the EUthe UK should seize the opportunity to create a new European Free Trade Zone (like the EEC) instead of going cap in hand to the EU. This would mean the UK could get the Free Trade with Europe it desires and avoid the EU dictating that it accepts the 'Free Movement of People' a major concern for the Leave campaign. In this way the EU would be shaped around Britain not Germany or Brussels. Agree?
Which countries are lining up with actual referendums?
I thought it was just the rusual right wing seperatist movements as usual?

EFTA already exists.

You arent being realistic.
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Alfissti
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#3
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#3
There are calls for a referendum but most likel the ones that will get one are fairly small players.

No chance, France, Germany and Spain or Italy would hold referendums and if they did a vote to leave would most likely be ignored.
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Gavin2016
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#4
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#4
EFTA - European Free Trade Agreement. The members of EFTA have to accept free movement of people a key issue the leave campaign were against. ETFA is essentially an offering from Brussels that is no good for us, better we lead the way in free trade proposals for Europe. The EU only has the power we give them and they are working beyond the support they actually have.




(Original post by 999tigger)
Which countries are lining up with actual referendums?



I thought it was just the rusual right wing seperatist movements as usual?

EFTA already exists.

You arent being realistic.
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Gavin2016
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#5
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#5
(Original post by Alfissti)
There are calls for a referendum but most likel the ones that will get one are fairly small players.

No chance, France, Germany and Spain or Italy would hold referendums and if they did a vote to leave would most likely be ignored.
France is very near a referendum with their presidential elections being held, Holland too are near one, possibly Sweden, Greece, Italy, etc. The peoples of Europe have been inspired by us to throw off their EU overseers. Once the ball gets rolling many others will join when they see their is an organisation to go to do free trade without the awkward imposition of free movement of people.
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999tigger
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#6
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#6
(Original post by Gavin2016)
EFTA - European Free Trade Agreement. The members of EFTA have to accept free movement of people a key issue the leave campaign were against. ETFA is essentially an offering from Brussels that is no good for us, better we lead the way in free trade proposals for Europe. The EU only has the power we give them and they are working beyond the support they actually have.
So the only members of the club are the UK. Sounds great...........
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username1799249
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#7
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#7
(Original post by Gavin2016)
Many countries now lining up with their own referendums on leaving the EUthe UK should seize the opportunity to create a new European Free Trade Zone (like the EEC) instead of going cap in hand to the EU. This would mean the UK could get the Free Trade with Europe it desires and avoid the EU dictating that it accepts the 'Free Movement of People' a major concern for the Leave campaign. In this way the EU would be shaped around Britain not Germany or Brussels. Agree?
How would you ensure a level playing field? You would need to create some form of cross country body to propose and debate the laws to govern free trade. They would then need to notify each member government to implement those rules as law in their own country.

Hmmm That sounds like what we had.
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Gavin2016
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#8
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#8
(Original post by 999tigger)
So the only members of the club are the UK. Sounds great...........
Not at all, there are other countries in Europe that are not part of the EU, there are even countries on the edge of Europe as well, Turkey, Ukraine, that would no doubt welcome a free trade arrangement, but it would just be free trade no free movement of people problem. Plus there would be any other countries that leave the EU which could be in growing numbers now the ball has got rolling.
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Gavin2016
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#9
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#9
(Original post by ByEeek)
How would you ensure a level playing field? You would need to create some form of cross country body to propose and debate the laws to govern free trade. They would then need to notify each member government to implement those rules as law in their own country.

Hmmm That sounds like what we had.
If its free trade then isn't the playing field already level? Beside a group set up to co-ordinate activity is hardly the same as what we had with paying in vast sums to Brussels only for them to return some of it and claim it was EU generosity & free movement of people problems, etc.
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username1799249
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#10
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#10
(Original post by Gavin2016)
If its free trade then isn't the playing field already level?
No - absolutely not at all. Companies have to adhere to local legislation. So if for example you are a company based in a country that has no health and safety at work, a high death rate of employees but no compensation to workers in the case of injury or fatality at work, your costs are naturally going to be lower than say in the UK where we take employee welfare very seriously. You would have a ethically unfair competitive edge over competing companies.

Quite a few years ago now, UK pig farmers were grumbling about standards of welfare that were much higher in the UK than in Europe. As a result they struggled to compete. However, thanks to our position in Europe we managed to get standards raised throughout Europe. Now, pig farmers compete within the same legislative framework.

Everyone complains about red tape from the EU, but almost all of the legislation is based on that sort of thing. Before Europe took over much of this sort of legislation, the UK government was constantly accused of creating "red tape" forgetting of course that most of that red tape is in everyone's interest.... unless you happen to want to go back to Dickensian times?

If we did a free trade deal with somewhere like the US, you can guarantee that companies in the UK wishing to benefit from it would end up having to adhere to US law and, worse still, find themselves at the mercy of law suits from the US justice system. Everyone thinks that trade deals are simply a document that says you can sell here and we can sell there. They are anything but that. They are time consuming, complex and have all sorts of unintended consequences.
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Gavin2016
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#11
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#11
(Original post by ByEeek)
No - absolutely not at all. Companies have to adhere to local legislation. So if for example you are a company based in a country that has no health and safety at work, a high death rate of employees but no compensation to workers in the case of injury or fatality at work, your costs are naturally going to be lower than say in the UK where we take employee welfare very seriously. You would have a ethically unfair competitive edge over competing companies.

Quite a few years ago now, UK pig farmers were grumbling about standards of welfare that were much higher in the UK than in Europe. As a result they struggled to compete. However, thanks to our position in Europe we managed to get standards raised throughout Europe. Now, pig farmers compete within the same legislative framework.

Everyone complains about red tape from the EU, but almost all of the legislation is based on that sort of thing. Before Europe took over much of this sort of legislation, the UK government was constantly accused of creating "red tape" forgetting of course that most of that red tape is in everyone's interest.... unless you happen to want to go back to Dickensian times?

If we did a free trade deal with somewhere like the US, you can guarantee that companies in the UK wishing to benefit from it would end up having to adhere to US law and, worse still, find themselves at the mercy of law suits from the US justice system. Everyone thinks that trade deals are simply a document that says you can sell here and we can sell there. They are anything but that. They are time consuming, complex and have all sorts of unintended consequences.
To some extent true, but there are nearly always some differences in playing field so companies have to deal with it however they see fit. For example, in Poland they earn £1.50 per hour for a job they would be on £7.50 here, even if we had the Euro they would still be that difference - so to say there is a complete level playing field created by the EU doesn't hold up. I agree that we need the 'red tape' the tories/businesses are so found of whining about - it helps safeguard lives and makes the world a better place. Yet we have had the best of the European legislation and most if not all of this will stay even on leaving the EU. It is now enshrined in UK law and how we do business and operate - too much water under the bridge to row back now and no doubt many of it necessary even if we were to set up our own free trade zone. The cost though has been saved by already having done all off this legislating.
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999tigger
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#12
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#12
(Original post by Gavin2016)
Not at all, there are other countries in Europe that are not part of the EU, there are even countries on the edge of Europe as well, Turkey, Ukraine, that would no doubt welcome a free trade arrangement, but it would just be free trade no free movement of people problem. Plus there would be any other countries that leave the EU which could be in growing numbers now the ball has got rolling.
Ok so you have the UK, Turkey and Ukraine. What others?
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username1494226
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#13
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#13
You might be on to something IF France, Sweden, The Netherlands and Italy end up exiting. Too many members leaving would open that as opportunity. However, I think the EU will try its hardest to force others to stay. Time will tell. I personally think France will be next once Hollande is gone.
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username1204031
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#14
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#14
(Original post by marco14196)
You might be on to something IF France, Sweden, The Netherlands and Italy end up exiting. Too many members leaving would open that as opportunity. However, I think the EU will try its hardest to force others to stay. Time will tell. I personally think France will be next once Hollande is gone.
They aren't exiting. Brexit has shown all the other countries what a ridiculous idea it is. Support for referendums in other countries is down.
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username1494226
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#15
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#15
(Original post by JordanL_)
They aren't exiting. Brexit has shown all the other countries what a ridiculous idea it is. Support for referendums in other countries is down.
I am pro remain but come on man, that is just not the case. It's given ammunition to the Austrians(who are re-holding their presidential election which will bring in a right wing pro exit government). It has given ammunition to the National Front in France who stand to make swiping gains against the failing Hollande(he has a 14% popularity rating, lowest in French history). I didn't think Brexit would happen, many didn't. They and I were proven wrong. Never underestimate the far out from happening because it happened this time.
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999tigger
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#16
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#16
(Original post by marco14196)
I am pro remain but come on man, that is just not the case. It's given ammunition to the Austrians(who are re-holding their presidential election which will bring in a right wing pro exit government). It has given ammunition to the National Front in France who stand to make swiping gains against the failing Hollande(he has a 14% popularity rating, lowest in French history). I didn't think Brexit would happen, many didn't. They and I were proven wrong. Never underestimate the far out from happening because it happened this time.
France is one of the main beneficiaries from the EU and its shared most influential member. Without CAP then the EU would cost a lot less.
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username1204031
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#17
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#17
(Original post by 999tigger)
France is one of the main beneficiaries from the EU
To be fair, that didn't stop Wales.
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999tigger
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#18
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#18
(Original post by JordanL_)
To be fair, that didn't stop Wales.
Not the same. Wales is just added onto the UK, it doesnt make decisions as an independent member of the EU. It wasnt oen of the founding members.
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Gavin2016
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#19
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#19
(Original post by 999tigger)
Ok so you have the UK, Turkey and Ukraine. What others?
Potentially the other EFTA members, Norway, Sweden, Iceland and Lichtenstein. Presumably they can make free trade with others on their own accord as they are not part of the EU, unless I am mistaken. Then any others that leave the EU - France and Holland are near Presidential elections, etc so depending on how they go. Sweden is also touted as another possibility.
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user73867
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#20
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#20
The EU project is, of course, doomed to failure.


Germany flourishes at the expense of Greece, Spain & Italy. Unable to devalue their currency to make their exports competitive, these southern EU countries are seriously struggling.

A generation of young people who haven't been able to find work. A generation of young people that have never known life outside of the EU.


Germany and France then have to support these countries via massive 'loans' from the ECB at the expense of the German people.


The EU can't last. It won't last.
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