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masiftinkerbell
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#21
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#21
How do you think that people in independent schools got to where they are - through their parents who were in many cases from state school and working class backgrounds and who have given them a good grounded upbringing. It is not as black and white as people make it out to be... state/independent. Ultimately, it depends on you as you are your own person.
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meepmeep
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#22
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#22
(Original post by ~Sam~)
I'm confused. A grammar school IS a state school
Grammar schools are selective state schools and are paid for through taxes like comprehensives (another type of state school). Private schools are funded for privately (not through taxes). Public and independent schools are just other names for private schools. To top it all off, some independent/public/private schools choose to call themselves grammars when they are not grammars as they are not paid for through taxation. Simple really.....:rolleyes:
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masiftinkerbell
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#23
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#23
Then they will go out and make their living and become successful in some other way.... im sorry, but if you want to do something so bad, you will do it. We dont live in f**king chile, atleast we have an education system for those of us who are less fortunate - you should be fortunate for what you have, in some countries it is only the wealthy who receive any education at all.
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masiftinkerbell
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#24
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#24
Thankyou meep meep... someone who knows something.
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fishpaste
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#25
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#25
(Original post by masiftinkerbell)
How do you think that people in independent schools got to where they are - through their parents who were in many cases from state school and working class backgrounds and who have given them a good grounded upbringing. It is not as black and white as people make it out to be... state/independent. Ultimately, it depends on you as you are your own person.
I don't see how this point is relevant. What are you saying? Your parents worked hard, so people stuck in failing state schools are not really having such a tough time.
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Sarky
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#26
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#26
(Original post by fishpaste)
Because you know people in state schools does not mean you know the extent to which they can be dreadful. You're talking about Alevels and I don't think you appreciate that intelligent people often won't make it to alevels because they're in such crud schools.

My school was crap. And my GCSE's were good in comparison to my friends. Compared to schools in my local area my school was good. My mum sent me to a school outside my local borough in order to make sure i got a so called decent education. Had there been any grammar schools or assisted places at private schools i would have taken the opportunity with both hands. GCSE's werent' easy at my school. It was a challenge getting teachers to work in the school, and a challenge to get kids to stay in the classes.
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meepmeep
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#27
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#27
The best people to judge are people who have moved from state to grammar or visa-versa (some of the people above fit the bill). Anybody in this situation care to contribute?
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masiftinkerbell
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#28
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#28
No I was saying that if our parents could do it - and they arent that hardworking (!).... then im sure that other people can. God you make it seem like climbing mount everest.... it is just GCSEs and A levels... u can teach yourself the courses! Im not disputing that people in independent schools might get it easier, but if you want it as bad then you will work harder for it. Then when you get to uni you can proove yourself and excel. Also some unis, such as bristol, look at a C grade in a state school the same as an A grade in an independent school due to these opinions - although i think this is wrong.
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operato
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#29
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#29
private schools wouldn't be needed if the state schools were decent ¬_¬
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masiftinkerbell
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#30
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#30
I dont proclaim to know everything - just sharing my view! I do also know though a lot of people who have gone from being in independent schools for GCSEs to going to sixth form college (state run) for A levels and doing just as well if not better. Some people prefer state schools so they cant be that bad!
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fishpaste
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#31
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#31
(Original post by masiftinkerbell)
No I was saying that if our parents could do it - and they arent that hardworking (!).... then im sure that other people can. God you make it seem like climbing mount everest.... it is just GCSEs and A levels... u can teach yourself the courses! Im not disputing that people in independent schools might get it easier, but if you want it as bad then you will work harder for it. Then when you get to uni you can proove yourself and excel. Also some unis, such as bristol, look at a C grade in a state school the same as an A grade in an independent school due to these opinions - although i think this is wrong.
I don't think people are contesting this, you seem to be acknowledging that it's more difficult in a state school, but saying that people do come out of state school with grades. I think that's agreed.

But why don't you think that the grade should be viewed in context?
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masiftinkerbell
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#32
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#32
Yes they would. Private schools are private for many other reasons - not just education.
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meepmeep
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#33
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#33
(Original post by masiftinkerbell)
Then when you get to uni you can proove yourself and excel. Also some unis, such as bristol, look at a C grade in a state school the same as an A grade in an independent school due to these opinions - although i think this is wrong.
Claim that if you want, but be prepared to back it up. I personally think that is an exageration but am prepared to be corrected. My interpretation was that, for candidates with similar grades, the state schooler whould be prefered. I know Bristol rejected some strong independent applicants and it hit the press, but there are many state school applicants predicted straight As who get rejected from a uni you'd expect them to get into because the uni thinks they are off to Oxbridge (which may well be the case for Bristol).
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fishpaste
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#34
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#34
(Original post by operato)
private schools wouldn't be needed if the state schools were decent ¬_¬
Really? Will people not always be trying to get their children the edge in life? Will the private sector not always exist to give children this edge? It's not that static IMO.

Also bear in mind that one reason that state schools are so poor is that they lack experienced and gifted teachers, who are often attracted by the higher wages/working environment offered by the private sector.
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~Sam~
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#35
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#35
(Original post by meepmeep)
Grammar schools are selective state schools and are paid for through taxes like comprehensives (another type of state school). Private schools are funded for privately (not through taxes). Public and independent schools are just other names for private schools. To top it all off, some independent/public/private schools choose to call themselves grammars when they are not grammars as they are not paid for through taxation. Simple really.....:rolleyes:
Lol, yeah I know all that. I was just confused because the other person said "I used go to a state school but now go to a grammar school". People always seem to confuse grammar schools with private schools
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masiftinkerbell
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#36
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#36
Because how the hell can you measure the context for each individual person - it is different for everyone and their circumstances. People are being far too general. For example, some people in independent schools may be having serious problems out of school which hinders their ability to suceed - would it be fair to label them as elitist and having an unfair advantage then because they went to independent school? We cannot put things in context so much as to know about every single person - that is like saying why dont we scan peoples brains to know how intelligent they are instead of taking exams???!
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What's Chico Time Precious?
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#37
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#37
I went to a compehenive school for 5 years and then a grammar for A levels, already said quite a bit on this somewhere in a previous thread but can't find it to copy and paste.

The standard of education received at the comprehensive wasn't bad, you were taught fairly well although pupils weren't challenged that much to be honest in comparison to the grammar - hours of homework a night which you'd get chased up for not doing, not the case in the comp.

The grammar also had less ****wits/drop outs/no hopers in it unsuprisingly, most of the time in the comp was spent chasing up misbehaving kids rather than teaching the ones that wanted to learn, again completely the opposite to grammar, kids wanted to learn and thrived off the work they got thrown at them.

Still though, i'm glad i went to the comp rather than the grammar, given me a decent perspetive on the world, grammar appears to shield and shelter the pupils way too much from the real world (bullying, crime, drugs, ***** etc..) not saying this doesn't happen in grammars, it did and i'm sure it does.
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meepmeep
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#38
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#38
(Original post by masiftinkerbell)
I dont proclaim to know everything - just sharing my view! I do also know though a lot of people who have gone from being in independent schools for GCSEs to going to sixth form college (state run) for A levels and doing just as well if not better. Some people prefer state schools so they cant be that bad!
There is a significant change to A-level (and state school is actually really enjoyable at sixth form level) as most of the people who stay on actually want to learn to go to university or to further themselves rather than just being forced to be there by law. I'd suggest that the advantage of being at an independent school decreases at A-level, although the school will still have greater resources.
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fishpaste
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#39
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#39
(Original post by masiftinkerbell)
Because how the hell can you measure the context for each individual person - it is different for everyone and their circumstances. People are being far too general. For example, some people in independent schools may be having serious problems out of school which hinders their ability to suceed - would it be fair to label them as elitist and having an unfair advantage then because they went to independent school? We cannot put things in context so much as to know about every single person - that is like saying why dont we scan peoples brains to know how intelligent they are instead of taking exams???!
Then all grades are worthless? Aren't they?

No, when you apply to university, if you have a non standard context you mention it and they take it into account. Otherwise you assumed you had the standard context.
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masiftinkerbell
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#40
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#40
Well ofcourse unis will have to reject talented people with some courses only have one place for 14 or so applicants! But they only have a certain number of things to go by and it is a difficult task, but i do not think that coming from a state school should make a massive difference to the application unless the complete context of the individual is known - which is impossible and far too time consuming so give up!
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