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    (Original post by magicalsausage)
    I'm really not sure if that is the case. Yes, many private schools cherrypick graduates and others who have been high achievers, but it is important to remember that there is far more to being a good teacher than having had outstanding success. Indeed, many of the most idealistic, driven and enthusiastic teachers would choose to go to the state sector - I remember a recent study in America showed that many were choosing to go to the inner city schools as they felt that is where they could do the most good.
    There's still a tendancy to drift upwards though in some cases, different teachers behave differently and there are various anecdotes which show that. But at least some are ultimately 'poached.'

    From my own personal experience at a comprehensive school for my entire education career, I have never felt disadvantaged because of being in the state sector, I have never been seriously bullied for being academically driven, I have never felt the standard of teaching I received was lesser to that of a private school and I have never been unhappy with the results I receive or blamed them on the school.
    Again, experiences differ, but I'd say a shockingly large number of people have suffered from these things. In my school you did get beaten up if you handed your homework in. Teachers would often sit you next to the worst pupils, in a bid to try and help said pupil. Teachers would often not do a lesson at all because pupils were just refusing to work and not acknowledging any threats. There were problems with the actual teaching, so few people were able to sit the higher tiers that they just weren't taught in a few subjects. How are you supposed to be getting strings of A*s when nobody's teaching you, and when they are they're teaching you the material you need to obtain a grade C/D? There are huge problems associated with the lower end of the state sector, and some of the anecdotes on this forum surely demonstrate that. I am not saying any of this is a reason to close down private schools, just as a reason to take the context of grades into account when deciding who to take for that precious university place. Which I believe happens already. So I'm quite happy about that really.
    http://www.private-eye.co.uk/content...ection.teacher
    Anybody who hasn't read this should.
    It is important to remember that private schools do not get better results because they have better teachers. It is a combination of the fact that only the middle classes and above are represented (and studies have shown that children of similar background receive similar results wherever they go) and more spoonfeeding - the reasons why state school children on average perform better at university than those from private schools.
    Surely spoonfeeding actually comes under quality of teaching?
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    (Original post by deianra)
    Invisible, dear, I don't appreciate you re-naming Merton Hislop. And do you have to deface Magdalen by calling it 'Maudlin'? I don't think Alexander appreciates it either.


    There's a teacher at my school (selective state) that used to teach at St Paul's Girls' School - statistically the best school in the country (apart from the times it gets beaten by Westminster).

    However, although a public school and my school are really worlds apart, she seems to think that my school is like St Paul's Girls' in everything, apart from the serious lack of money we have. Though to me, that is a very serious difference. Anyway, we're most definitely not anything like a comprehensive and perform better academically than the vast majority of independents. The term "state school" is really so broad.

    It thus supports the following argument:
    Okay but as I acknowledged earlier that's one story about one teacher. I too have stories about teachers who have moved from 25% pass rate schools to the private sector. But there's still a tendancy.
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    (Original post by deianra)
    Invisible, dear, I don't appreciate you re-naming Merton Hislop. And do you have to deface Magdalen by calling it 'Maudlin'? I don't think Alexander appreciates it either.
    Sorry, we've renamed them all. Here's the list.

    Merton --------> Hislop
    New ----------> Neo
    Magdalen -----> Written as maudlin -----> renamed as morpheus
    Jesus ---------> Jebus
    Wadham ------> Wa*kers college (I didn't rename that one by the way)
    St. Hilda's ----> St. Hitlers
    Mansfield -----> Matrix
    Christ Church --------> Mo's Mosque (I renamed that one!)

    We got bored in one of the lectures.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Surely spoonfeeding actually comes under quality of teaching?
    Well if you're on about "getting the grades", then yes, but in terms of enhancing one's enjoyment and real learning for the subject, perhaps not.

    If we're going by the crappy/stupid/pointless/gay "league tables" that judge schools on exam technique/rearing, then yes spoon feeding goes under quality of teaching.

    Personally I think that giving someone a very sound base of understanding and then suggesting them materials to read, do questions on it, and then give back to mark with appropriate feedback, is a better method.
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    (Original post by Invisible)
    Well if you're on about "getting the grades", then yes, but in terms of enhancing one's enjoyment and real learning for the subject, perhaps not.

    If we're going by the crappy/stupid/pointless/gay "league tables" that judge schools on exam technique/rearing, then yes spoon feeding goes under quality of teaching.

    Personally I think that giving someone a very sound base of understanding and then suggesting them materials to read, do questions on it, and then give back to mark with appropriate feedback, is a better method.
    Well if the debate is should the school be taken into account when assessing grades, then I am on about 'getting the grades.'
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    (Original post by magicalsausage)
    I honestly do not think it is healthy for a child only to be surrounded by other affluent, middle class children. At a state school one comes into contact with the full sweep of classes - in my experience people from state schools have far less prejudice towards the working class or the poor as they will have made friends who are not as priviliged as themselves and will have got to know many who would simply not be at any private school.
    I disagree entirely. Undoubtedly, too much contact between classes can sometimes lead to mutual animosity, while not having contact with certain types of people won't necessarily lead to prejudice.

    A certain amount of segregation is natural and healthy.
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    (Original post by me!)
    Two kids. One goes and lives abroad, goes to an international school out there costing more than £20,000 a year. The other goes to comp that's like at the bottom of the league table. How can they be expected to get the same GCSE/A Level results the one abroad "must" do better, I mean the parents paying 20k must be paying for something, right? Otherwise what's the point?
    But that's the thing - you really do not have to pay £20k to do well - I know many many people who have achieved the top results possible at every level going to state comprehensive. Sending your kids to private school is not about their education.
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    (Original post by masiftinkerbell)
    So are we meant to believe that if one goes to a private school he cannot socially interact with those from other classes? That is so naieve, and if that was the case then it could easily work the other way round too. At the end of the day, people that go to independent school may start off in better surroundings and be fortunate, but eventually it is the person themselves who makes the difference.
    But a lot of kids from very well off families do go to state school, so it really does not work the other way round.
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    (Original post by d750)
    I disagree entirely. Undoubtedly, too much contact between classes can sometimes lead to mutual animosity, while not having contact with certain types of people won't necessarily lead to prejudice.

    A certain amount of segregation is natural and healthy.
    Yay! I agree
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    Private schools should be abolished. Not only do they reinforce inequality, but most of the time there is no different in the results students get in private education than state education.
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    I do acknowledge that there are more ******s going to comps than private schools.
    I'm not sure where you get that from and I beg to differ. However I am more concerned with your assertion that there are more geeks at private school than state: from my experience this is not the case at all! Being a geek is about more than just good grades, it is about a genuine desire for academic growth, it is about a near obsessive interest in two or more specific fields (just one makes them a nerd) and it is about geek pride.
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    (Original post by MyRedArmyDream)
    Private schools should be abolished. Not only do they reinforce inequality, but most of the time there is no different in the results students get in private education than state education.
    That appears to be a contradiction -- in what sense do they reinforce inequality if there is no difference in results? Results are what matter for getting into uni and job prospects.
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    (Original post by MyRedArmyDream)
    Private schools should be abolished. Not only do they reinforce inequality, but most of the time there is no different in the results students get in private education than state education.
    How can a certain amount of segregation reinforce inequality? Forced integration would really bring it home.
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    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Then perhaps we shouldn't forbid people their freedom of choice to steal/commit crimes etc. Forbidding somebody their freedom of choice is not a bad thing necessarily.
    I fail to understand why the consequences of a private education equate to that of commiting crimes.


    (Original post by fishpaste)
    According to my old head, the biggest problem for schools is not so much lack of money but lack of good teachers. (how many rubbish schools still have a multitude of IT equipment which is supposed to magically get children GCSEs?)
    Look at it from the teachers point of view, would they rather be teaching a well behaved class? Or a class with half the children not wanting to learn and being disruptive.


    (Original post by fishpaste)
    Maybe people want to learn but don't want to be beaten up for it. Would you hand your homework in if you knew it'd get you a punch in the face?
    Hand it in to the teacher later. At the end of the day the schools can't target this, the kids grow up this way because of their parents. There's a limit to what the schools can do. That's why I think you should have a tiered state system with the kids who want to learn being placed at least in different classes. You can't do anything with the kids who don't want to learn.
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    (Original post by MyRedArmyDream)
    Private schools should be abolished. Not only do they reinforce inequality, but most of the time there is no different in the results students get in private education than state education.
    You don't just go to a private school for the education.
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    Some grammar schools have been abolished, but not all of them. Grammar schools are NOT elitist. All clever children have the opportunity to be educated in a grammar school (as long as their parents put them forward). My mum went to a grammar school when she was a child, and her parents were far from wealthy! I just think it's a shame there are so few of them, as there are way, way more smart people than there are places in these schools.
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    (Original post by StarBlueUK)
    Some grammar schools have been abolished, but not all of them. Grammar schools are NOT elitist. All clever children have the opportunity to be educated in a grammar school (as long as their parents put them forward). My mum went to a grammar school when she was a child, and her parents were far from wealthy! I just think it's a shame there are so few of them, as there are way, way more smart people than there are places in these schools.
    i agree with grammar schools not being elitist. why should you be penalised for being clever? this politically correct society is pushing things a little too far...
    i agree that there are problems - parents paying to coach their children so they get into grammar schools. this pushes them into the same position as private schools almost - u can only geta place if ur parents can afford the tuition in the first place.

    however, for families that cant afford private schools, grammar schools are a godsend.the thing is, that depending on where you live and the actual school, theres either a really big difference between comprehensive school standards and grammar school standards. in my borough in london, the 2 grammar schools are miles ahead of the comprehensives in the league tables.
    but im aware that this isnt always the case so u cant generalise.

    oh bugger this my head is hurting from staring at the computer so long i dont no wat point im making!!!!

    ANYWAY! i used to go to a crappy comp now at top grammar. grammar has no money and were lucky if we have paint on the walls. main hall was unpainted for a year. nice.
    u can really tell the difference tho - attitude of students. just the desire to do well. and teachers like it as well cz even tho facilities are *shite*, students still want to do well so every1 is happy-ish.

    but wat i dont like is wen parents who cud afford to send their kids to private schools send them to grammars. it really pisses me off because theyr taking away places from students who want that standard of education but cant afford it. it makes me so angry!!

    ok im gna go rest my eyes now.. :P
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    (Original post by magicalsausage)
    But that's the thing - you really do not have to pay £20k to do well - I know many many people who have achieved the top results possible at every level going to state comprehensive. Sending your kids to private school is not about their education.
    What is it about then? A school is an educational institute, you go to school to get an education. How can a fee of 20k (not even boarding) be justified then?

    Everybody I've known to go to a private school went there for an education...

    A friend of my moved abroad and she goes to the british school there, she is one of 3 kids, all of them go to the school and the fee is 20k each per year. Yet I'm expected to get the same results as her and i go to a comp second from bottom of my lea. They moved abroad to get a better education and pay 20k a year to do so, yet at the end of the day we're still getting roughly the same results...
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    £20 K is paid a year to be reared to get good grades, thats the reason.
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    (Original post by Invisible)
    £20 K is paid a year to be reared to get good grades, thats the reason.
    But that's madness, I'm getting the same grades and I'm getting them for basically free!

    It's crazy, I don't even think my parents earn that much a year... (dad's retired and mum only works 1.5 days a week)
 
 
 
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